Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

[Naf]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

I already have stainless marine headers in a box here, and Gil marine is mostly for BBC.

Messin with the back pressure only helps the top end, you need a little back pressure to help excite the fuel to become vapor and get you off the line.

The only alternative i have to shut me up would be to install a root charger, for the centrifugal wont help me down low like the root type do. I gain bottom end power to spin the props and it maxes out around 5000rpm anyways

I am going to change the rockers, and springs, but leave everything else alone. For now. This way i am not messing with any of the original aspects, just making them better for longevity. Stamped rockers are the cheapest rockers, but roller rockers offer better lift and less friction which means less wear and tear on the valvetrain...

 

[Walt T]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

If you're gonna spend that kind of money on a supercharger you may as well just build a stroker as Mr. Danforth said. Slapping a supercharger on a bone stock motor really isn't the best use of the money spent. You're still stuck on the minute things such as valve train changes which will make zero difference and is not a good use of your money. It is however, your money and your boat. You're certainly free to do as you wish with it. We've done our best to help.

 

[jimmbo]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

No one has mentioned Nitrous yet. That may give the gent his low end grunt. May yield burnt pistons, scuffed bearings, etc as well, but that's another story

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Jimmbo, no one has mentioned a JATO unit either.

NAF, the stainless headers wont add much, especially on the low end. changing the rockers as Walt pointed out will not do anything but move the torque curve up a few hundred RPM (not good in a boat) and will possibly lead to coil bind on a stock motor. Then again, its your money and you have ignored all of us so far

 

[Walt T]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Naf I posted that throttle body link strictly to illustrate the TBI modifications as someone asked about the butterflys. That TBI is not related in anyway to what we are dicussing nor is it marine for all others reading.

 

[jimmbo]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

jimmbo, no one has mentioned a jato unit either.

roflmao!

There might be a dust trail towards military surplus store soon

 

[funk6294]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Naf, if I read you description correctly it has always struggled out if the hole even pre mod correct? Given that, this could be just a simple set up issue. How far down is your drive actually trimming before it hits the lower limit? Could be that you need to adjust the limit switch to allow the drive to start at a lower angle. Same thought as moving the pin on an outboard down one hole. Should help keep the nose down and help the boat pop up quicker.

 

[Naf]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

i always start at -5 which is the lowest setting. It doesnt help at all, the bow still goes sky high.

Is there a way to adjust the lower limit switch?

In rough weather i had no bow control till i installed the hydraulic trim tabs. i keep them 50% down and it works at keepin the bow down and not poppin up all the time....

 

[funk6294]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

I am merc guy and it is for sure adjustable on mine. I did some googling in the VP set up and it appears to be nearly the same and looked up the trim switch for it and it appears to have slotted holes for the mounting screws, so it would appear all you would need to do us loosen the two screws, rotate slightly and then tighten them back up. If your boat is on a trailer try lowering the drive all the way down and when it stops see if it is actually angling the prop down.

Here is a link that discusses it.

http://dc345.4shared.com/doc/mfPztb8k/preview.html

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Naf I posted that throttle body link strictly to illustrate the TBI modifications as someone asked about the butterflys. That TBI is not related in anyway to what we are dicussing nor is it marine for all others reading.

Ive taken the time to read all of the mod's done to this boat...I am still at a loss just how you implemented a OS sensor that works in a wet exhaust...keep in mind it takes huge amount's of heat to make them function properly below is accepted method for wet exhaust could or would you post a pic of your bung install...

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16148&cat=0&page=1

The Bosch LSU4.2 wide-band O2 sensor (shipped as part of the LM-1 kit) is rated to operate at an exhaust gas temperature of < 1300 degrees (F), and a sensor housing temperature of............ < 900 degrees (measured at the bung) for maximum accuracy and control...................... When either of these operating temperature ranges is exceeded, the sensor can no longer be accurately controlled. Further, operating at or over these temperatures for any length of time can significantly reduce the lifetime of the sensor. The LM-1 is designed to display an error message under these conditions (currently 08- Sensor Timing Error) rather than provide inaccurate readings. For some turbo vehicles, rotary engines, and other setups, this error message can be encountered with annoying frequency.



That marine intake is tuned to get hp and tourqe that cant be found in automotive application's...Page.55

As to the TB.... marine TB's are actually the largest out there.. laugh's Volvo put a 454 stock tbi on the 4.3..that the whole concept behind that intake thread...it can be used with larger injectors to create more hp the tb on the right is the marine version

PIc's are need here to see some of the mod's

 

[MikDee]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

After much concentration on this (do you smell the wood burning? ) I figured he has enough power for lift off,,,lol, But, he's looking to get over the hump to planing , which sometimes happens on a 18-20' boat with a powerful motor, this boat probably is back heavy (after all we don't know where his gas tank is? or, how his weight is distributed?) I don't think a prop with less pitch would work, he'd just be overrevving? The only way to fix this is to put a Doel fin, or hydrofoil on it to help lift the transom. This would also work better then dragging trim tabs through the water on planing start up.

 

[Naf]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp



This is how i installed a wb o2 sensor on my exhaust. You will need an adapter to merge the two threads, but that was the easy part...

Thanx for the info on the trim adjustment, i will try that as well. I may be too high on my lowest trim...

My fuel tank is in the middle of the boat just behind the ski storage well..

I have a small 20lb anchor and 75mtr of 3/8" rope up front. I also move my 97q icebox upfront for waterskiin so i shift more weight upfront...

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Intersting location for a wide band Bell Howell use's the same port, Even a wide band needs to run at 700-900 degree's i have great doubts that exhaust gas runs 700 on the internal and 120 on the surface. This is just my own belief i have no way to proving it.. A great resource would be a guy called Bob at OBD Diagnostics his experience and knowledge with marine efi is very in depth....i still believe your in a lean burn detonation spark problem.

http://www.ion-ign.com - Wide-Band Oxygen Sensor Controller Theory

Wide Band Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor Heater Problems

Now that we understand the basic principle of operation, lets address some physical concerns. We already acknowledged that the temperature of the sensing cell must be greater than 600F degrees before the output voltage becomes active. In the real world you want the temperature to remain between 750F degrees and 900F degrees for the most linear output voltage. To maintain these temperatures, an electric heater unit is powered to heat the sensor to the proper operating temperature range.

But there is another problem here. The exhaust gas temperature varies with engine power, and these variances affect the cell temperature regardless of the electric heater action. The exhaust gases can add to the heater power (during high engine power) and cease to add heat to the sensor during very low engine power levels. Therefore the heater circuit must be able to adjust itself for these exhaust gas flow temperature differences.

Another problem is that the sensing cell will start developing output voltage below 700F degrees while the pumping cell can't effectively move oxygen ions until it has reached 700F degrees. This means that we can not use the sense cell output voltage until the pump cell oxygen ion pumping action can control the sense cell output voltage. So we need a fast heater during engine start up, and a detection system to determine when the wide band oxygen sensor output voltage is valid.

Many WBOS controllers out there do not address the exhaust gas temperature fluctuations, and simply apply a fixed electrical power to the heater unit. They are branded as "non-scientific" models. The more accurate models must incorporate solutions to the temperature problems described above.

Another concern is the factory established calibration resistor which is intended to compensate for manufacturing differences between units. This calibration resistor value will indicate a correction factor required for the pumping cell and the sensing cell interaction during operation.

Last of all, exhaust gas back pressure can have an effect upon the sense cell output. This has to do with the porosity of the sense cell. If the cell material has pores to small, then exhaust gases will be restricted, and exhaust back pressure will vary the effectiveness of the pumping cell. If the pumping cell effectiveness changes, then the pumping cell current has a varying effect upon the sense cell. If the pumping cell has pores that are to large, then exhaust gas contaminates can get lodged into the pores and once again reduce the pumping cell effectiveness.

OS manufacturer's attempt to select the optimum pore size, which reduces the effect of exhaust gas back pressure without contaminate problems. This optimum pore size is hard to maintain during volume manufacturing. Highly accurate OS controllers may want to consider this exhaust gas back pressure in the OS measurement process, if the back pressure is significant. High performance engines usually have mild back pressure and are not affected to any significant degree by exhaust gas back pressure changes to the OS measurements.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

No offense meant here..........not one pic of the actual install.....garbage thread plz some pics of the actual install there maybe thoussnads who view this thread...well founded in ideal's but no fact's

 

[Naf]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

You will get your picture later today of the WBo2 sensor installed...

EGT should be
500F at idle
500-1000F cruising
1200-1400F WOT

Anything above those numbers and you are running either too lean of a mixture or too much timing...

 

[Walt T]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

It is better to be too rich than too lean neither of which I am.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

You will get your picture later today of the WBo2 sensor installed...

EGT should be
500F at idle
500-1000F cruising
1200-1400F WOT

Anything above those numbers and you are running either too lean of a mixture or too much timing...

I am also controlling the injectors with Dynojets CMD Marine tool and also adding Autotune to keep the AFR in check.


Dyno Jet simply change's the pulse duration the ecm originally sends. fat or lean that is what it does....the way you have implemented your OS sensor are you sure it get's to 700 degree's+++ it will not read correctly if it is not that hot. Unless they have come up with a OS sensor that cannot operate well below those temp's.

Exhaust Gas Tempature's...EGT...............................The OS sensor body must be 750+++...................................................


Tuning for 100% E85 -- 1000c EGT's is it bad? - NASIOC






EGT vs A/F?

Both are important in their own respect. The problem with tuning solely on EGT's, is that elevated EGT's may mean the engine is lean, or it may mean the engine is rich. If the engine is to rich, combustion will still be taking place in the exhaust pipe, which is where the EGT probe is located. This is where AFR's come in. There really is no discreptancy about lean or rich with AFRs. The tune of the engine will directly affect the AF


here seems to be a lot of mystery and misinformation about using exhaust gas temperatures to tune engines. Claims by many EGT gauge manufacturers about it being the best way to tune an engine must be qualified. The BEST way to tune an engine is on an engine dyno- PERIOD. What EGT is good for is a reference for where the engine made maximum torque at wide open throttle. Once removed from the dyno, a similar air/fuel ratio can be established at a later date by dialing in the mixture to achieve the target EGT. It is really the AFR that is important, not the EGT. Most engines will make maximum power at an AFR of between 12.0 and 13.5 to 1 however, the EGT may vary from 1250F to 1800F and is dependent on many factors.

 

[Naf]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Engine dynos car chassis dynos they are all the same, they help you see the power output vs all the parameters of the engine...

I had three engines on an engine dyno, made great numbers, put them in the car and ran them on a car chassis dyno made decent numbers but was silly rich and had knock.

So i retuned for the cars, dropped 4-8 degrees timing and decreased the VE and MAF accordingly. everything was fine except low rpm light loads, had to increase the timing to 55 degrees to stop the bucking...

If you have the space, a wide open ocean is fine, the weather is great with an ambient temp less than 20c, no waves,a full tank of gas, and you are all hooked up to the ecu, you can tune the boat engine till your hearts content. All hp readouts are at 20c ambient temps, anything above 25c and the ecu starts to pull timing, anything below 20c and the ecu adds timing...This way you are neutral and you are getting an accurate readout...

In a car you will be doing speeds up to 250mph in some cases which is seriously unsafe, thus the need to find a car chassis dyno. I tune for 3rd gear till 5th gear. It takes more time on the dyno but this way i have a proper average for the VE, MAF, and enough timing to pull myself out of trouble...

HOWEVER! in our situation i dont think the ecu adds nor pulls ignition timing for it is fixed by the distributor...So getting the right AFR is important...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Engine dynos car chassis dynos they are all the same, they help you see the power output vs all the parameters of the engine...

I had three engines on an engine dyno, made great numbers, put them in the car and ran them on a car chassis dyno made decent numbers but was silly rich and had knock.

So i retuned for the cars, dropped 4-8 degrees timing and decreased the VE and MAF accordingly. everything was fine except low rpm light loads, had to increase the timing to 55 degrees to stop the bucking...

If you have the space, a wide open ocean is fine, the weather is great with an ambient temp less than 20c, no waves,a full tank of gas, and you are all hooked up to the ecu, you can tune the boat engine till your hearts content. All hp readouts are at 20c ambient temps, anything above 25c and the ecu starts to pull timing, anything below 20c and the ecu adds timing...This way you are neutral and you are getting an accurate readout...

In a car you will be doing speeds up to 250mph in some cases which is seriously unsafe, thus the need to find a car chassis dyno. I tune for 3rd gear till 5th gear. It takes more time on the dyno but this way i have a proper average for the VE, MAF, and enough timing to pull myself out of trouble...

HOWEVER! in our situation i dont think the ecu adds nor pulls ignition timing for it is fixed by the distributor...So getting the right AFR is important...

Ayuh,.... While I donno much 'bout the Volvos,...

The Mercruiser computers change the timin', pretty much Constantly,....

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Volvo computer changes timing just as often.