VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

sweet addiction

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

If you have a coast guard auxiliary near by you could try doing a "radio check" with them.
 

tpenfield

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

Radio shack has an SWR meter . . . I wonder if I should get it, just to test the thing out :noidea:
 

sweet addiction

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

I would if you don't mind spending the money. I'm not trying to sound like a know it all, but mobile radio is kinda a hobby of mine and I in know way claim to know everything, but I do know more than the average bear. SWR is a measure of how much of the radios power is not sent out through the antenna, it is instead rejected back to the radio. If the SWR of your system is too high you will drastically shorten the life of your radio. So that said listening to the weather transmissions is one thing. How the radio is getting out/talking is a whole other animal. The thing I would make sure about that SWR meter at Radio Shack is that it will work with VHF radios. I don't know if it makes a difference or not, but it might only work with C.B. radios. The only real difference between VHF and C.B. is the frequencies(mghz) that they operate on.
 

UncleWillie

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

Radio shack has an SWR meter . . . I wonder if I should get it, just to test the thing out :noidea:

Radio Shack SWR Meter = CB/HF HF = 3 to 30 MHz.
Marine VHF = 156mhz. = VHF (30-300mhz) Not even Close!

A VHF SWR Meter would be a common item for the 2 meter (145mhz) Amateur Radio Crowd.

There is a way to make the HF Meter work HERE.

A coat hanger will make a good receive antenna.
You will need to test it in transmit to see if the antenna is radiating.
Radio checks are fine only if you have a standard to compare to.
It may work, but it may work a lot better!
 

UncleWillie

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

...Now I have to go fetch out the wrench that I dropped into the depths of the hull structure last week . . . :noidea:

I once dropped a 1/2 inch wrench down the throttle body into the intake manifold of the car. :eek:
A rare earth magnet duct taped to a string Fished it out.
I sure am glad engines are mostly aluminum today! :D
 

tpenfield

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

After a bit of Internet searching, etc . . .

It looks like:


- The VHF SWR meter would be a bit more expensive than the Radio Shack model (which won't work for VHF)

- I cannot adjust the Fiberglass Shakespeare antenna anyway

- Shakespeare has a few videos that I can check out to check the antenna, etc.


After several times searching, using flashlights, mirrors, reaching down from above, looking up from below, etc. I have been unable to locate the 7/16" box wrench. So, I'll leave it for now . . . :rolleyes:
 

sweet addiction

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

After several times searching, using flashlights, mirrors, reaching down from above, looking up from below, etc. I have been unable to locate the 7/16" box wrench. So, I'll leave it for now . . .
Dang! :dispirited:

I cannot adjust the Fiberglass Shakespeare antenna anyway

In your case it's not about adjusting your antenna, but more about letting you know that all your coax connections are all good. Yeah the Shakespeare SWR meter runs around $130, Not cheap for a meter. I don't mean to get you all worked up over this. It's just that when there is a question on weather or not a coax connection is a solid one or not....It could heavily effect how well your radio will work and for how long.
 

jhebert

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

...SWR is a measure of how much of the radio[']s power is not sent out through the antenna, it is instead rejected back to the radio.

No quite. The theory of VSWR is hard to describe in a single sentence.

If power flowing toward the antenna is rejected, then power flowing toward the transmitter is rejected. Most of the loss created by higher VSWR is in increases in the transmission line losses due to the higher voltage and current nodes.

If the SWR of your system is too high you will drastically shorten the life of your radio.

Most modern radio transmitters have protection circuits. If the transmitter detects a mis-match (a high VSWR) it reduces the transmitter power to a safe level. Of course, it is better to not operate the transmitter into poorly matched loads, in case the protection circuit does not work as planned. For more about the notion that high VSWR causes damage to the transmitter please see this article:

http://vk1od.net/transmissionline/VSWR/damage.htm

The singular question for the value of VSWR measurement by boaters: what are you going to do with the information?

Please describe what VSWR measurement triggers what action by the boater.
 

tpenfield

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

Looks like from the article(s) that I can test the antenna by seeing how well it receives (rather than transmits).. I could use an alternate NOAA station where I am on the fringe of its coverage area to see if and how well it comes in.

On the PL-259 connector, I'm thinking that I did not trim the ground shield enough and therefore the insert piece would not screw in completely.

I'm thinking that if the antenna receives well, I will leave the connector alone. If not, I'll re-terminate it.

Looks like I could use the Rhode Island station or the Boston station for a test . . .

WXJ39.gif
 

tpenfield

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

Can you guys tell that I don't really like RF electronics, etc. . . . :rolleyes:
 

Capt Sully

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

If you have a Ohm meter you can check if your connections are good. put one lead on the center of the 259 and put the other lead on the connector that screws on. If the meter moves, then you have a short and bad install. With your Shakesprear ant there is nothing to tune on it, it's all in the cable. You may need to make a few turns or coils on the cable close to the ant connection. ??? Some radios have a warning light if the SWR is too high ??? It also may shut itself off, or you could hear a clipping sound??? Good luck
 

bruceb58

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

If you have a Ohm meter you can check if your connections are good. put one lead on the center of the 259 and put the other lead on the connector that screws on. If the meter moves, then you have a short and bad install. With your Shakesprear ant there is nothing to tune on it, it's all in the cable. You may need to make a few turns or coils on the cable close to the ant connection. ??? Some radios have a warning light if the SWR is too high ??? It also may shut itself off, or you could hear a clipping sound??? Good luck
With an ohm meter, you are just checking the DC characteristics. What happens at RF is a whole different story.

Coiling the cable isn't going to do anything.
 

Thalasso

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

Even if the SWR isn't in what you would consider specs there isn't anyway to adjust it. It's not like a CB antenna where you trim the end.I don't think you can trim the ends of a fiberglass marine antenna
 

Thalasso

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

I think you are or some of you are putting to much tech. stuff out there that isn't necessary and makes it confusing for the op. Remember the radios are line of site anyways. He isn't going to get out there no more then 10-12 miles at the best if nothing is in the way.
 

jhebert

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

I think you are or some of you are putting to much tech. stuff out there that isn't necessary and makes it confusing for the op. Remember the radios are line of site anyways. He isn't going to get out there no more then 10-12 miles at the best if nothing is in the way.

The subject of VSWR was not introduced by me. It is a very technical and complex subject. The notion that you can make misleading statements about it if you do it in a non-technical way is not a particularly good plan for providing information. If people bring up technical subjects like the effect of standing waves on the transmission line on the life expectancy of a radio transmitter, it seems reasonable that the subject be discussed in a way that brings out accurate information.

I don't see any merit in simple advice if the advice is bad advice. When people bring up highly technical topics it should be expected that there might be a discussion in the technical realm.
 

jhebert

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

Looks like from the article(s)...

I believe you are referring to

Assessing VHF Marine Band Antenna Performance Using Distant NOAA Weather Radio Broadcasts
continuousWave: Whaler: Reference: Assesing Antennas Performance


...by seeing how well it receives...I could use an alternate NOAA station where I am on the fringe of its coverage area to see if and how well it comes in.

Yes, that is precisely what is suggested in the article.

Reception of long-range NOAA stations is not a complete test of the radio and antenna, but it will show that the antenna is actually connected to the radio and able to receive weak signals. If the antenna were not connected at all, you might be able to receive local signals, but you certainly would not receive weak signals from long distances. If the antenna were connected but there was a short in the connector (which often happens) then you could still hear local stations, but you would not be able to hear distance stations. To make the test for receiving valid, you need to use a distant station whose signal will be marginal. In this way a bad antenna or a receiver of poor sensitivity will reveal itself.

It is typical that you should receive NOAA weather stations at ranges of over 70-miles on occasion. The exact range is hard to predict.

You can test your transmitter with the methods suggested by others. A good test is to arrange in advance a radio check with another cooperating station whose radio and antenna are known to be working properly. If you check with a random station, there is no certainty that the random station will have a radio installation that is up to par or have any idea what sort of range is normal for his radio. When checking with another boat with a 25-watt VHF Marine Band radio and a decent antenna installation where the antenna base is about seven feet or more above water level, you should find that it is possible to communicate at a range of at least five miles and up to 15 miles (or more), depending on the intervening terrain and conditions. Do not attempt test transmissions with your radio with local stations, that is, stations closer than five miles. In many cases you can communicate with local stations at a range of a mile or two even with an antenna or transmitter that is not operating properly. Testing with stations that are too close gives very misleading results.
 

tpenfield

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Re: VHF Radio Installation w/ Pics

Now what is this VSWR ???? I used to have a VCR, but got a DVD not too long ago :noidea:
 
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