"W" Saves The Day!

cmyers_uk

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2004
Messages
760
Re: "W" Saves The Day!

You are for increasing the accident mortality and serious injury? So that in addition to higher gasoline costs and taxes, you want to raise our auto and medical insurance costs even higher. Forcing the public out of safer SUV type autos, into smaller, lighter, more fragile ones will lead an increase in serious injury and death on the roadway. Look at the statistics.<br /><br />
Interested to see your statistics that show you are safer in a car that is less fuel efficient. Safety is not related to the economy figures your vehicle. Your child getting hit by a SUV is much less likely to survive than if he/she is hit by a smaller car as the impact of large vehicle is on head / chest versus legs from small car. <br /><br /><br />
You know who decides what kind of vehicle I drive and how much fuel I use? I DO! Not you
Quite right, and as an Oil company exec I decide how much you pay so stop your moaning about my profits its freedom. You decide how much you want to use it I decide how much I want to sell and at what price.
 

Speedwagon

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
389
Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Cars, by their very nature today, are designed to crumple around the people inside. This is a far safer way of making a car.<br /><br />Trucks(SUVs), on the other hand, are designed around(up until the last very few years) load hauling capabilities. This forced them to have a much stiffer structure to them, transfering more energy to the passengers.<br /><br />When you compare collision statistics, you need to put them in perspective. Most german engineered cars are designed to sustain a high speed collision, because they are built for high speed roads.<br /><br />If most all of the vehicles on todays roads were cars, then we would all be a lot safer. But, trucks/SUVs cause more damage, because they are heavier, and don't crumple.<br /><br />That said, todays trucks are much better than they were a few years ago. But, the cars are actually quite a bit better than the trucks, because there is more room to play with.
 

txswinner

Banned
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Apr 24, 2005
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Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Poor folk should be required to travel in mass transit. Save their money and if they would get a job to pay for gas they would not drive so much. Basically, if you are worth less than $____ you should have to live within biking distance of work. Only the wealthy should be traveling on vacation and boating etc. Certainly not the masses. Have you see how many people are on the lakes on weekends.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Took me 2 minutes to find.<br /><br /> During 2005, the Tax Foundation’s Jonathan Williams and Scott Hodge found, Exxon-Mobil, Chevron (NYSE: CVX), and ConocoPhillips (NYSE: COP) “paid a combined corporate income tax burden of $44.3 billion on their reported gross earnings. Compared to last year’s combined corporate income taxes of $29.7 billion, their burden for 2005 has increased by 49.2 percent and follows the overall trend of escalating corporate tax collections in the United States.” <br /><br /> Williams and Hodge added in their January 31 “Fiscal Fact” that “the average effective tax rate on the major integrated oil and gas industry is estimated to equal 38.3 percent. This exceeds the estimated average effective tax rate of 32.3 percent for the market as a whole.”<br /><br />In addition to corporate income taxes, the same companies paid or remitted over $114.5 billion in other taxes in 2005, including franchise, payroll, property, severance and excise taxes. <br /><br />source: The Tax Foundation.<br /><br />How is it that the government who raises taxes frequently on the consumer, cannot be gouging. I believe it is 47 cents a gallon here in WI. That doesn't count the property tax on the station, additional gas tax to deliver gas to get taxed at the gas station, tolls, licences. All government taxes. FYI that is more than the oil companies make per gallon. The fact they don't have to deal with the burdens of global supply and demand, natural disasters, inposed boutique fuel requirements, draconian environmental regulation, All to make somewhere between 6-10% (depending on your source.) Jmonica, you need to learn the difference between wholesale and manufacture. The burdens are significantly different. And therefore, costs, and potential downsides are huge on the manufacturer, wholesaler can close a warehouse and cancel his phone service. Wholesalers frequently move paper and never even see, warehouse, inspect, or even touch the product. Therefore based on the value added aspects of their service their profits are lower.<br /><br />And it is nice of you to decide for a private company what profits should be. Unfortunately you have no idea what reserves are required to maintain a worldwide global research, refining, exploration, and supply network. And I suppose you will be sending them extra cash when the prices drop. Or not. Trust me I don't want to pay a dime more than I have to for anything, but not at the expense of our freedoms.<br /><br />Try and get a business loan based on the 6%-10% profit margin, regardless of velocity. <br /><br />As for your comment on the interstate system and Hitler, It speaks for itself. I notice you haven't pointed to Communist Russia when pointing out government taking over the healthcare, oil, and as it seems the automotive industries. Interesting how you point to luxury yachts as a high profit item. Having friends at Palmer Johnson, a former VP in fact, and a senior designer at Burger, you have no clue. Their profit margin can be lower than that of the oil companies. Your model doesn't work. But supply and demand does. You might remember when liberals thought it was a great idea to put a luxury tax on boats, and remember what it did to the industry? Lots of poor factory working craftsmen looking for work. No effect on the rich. Spiteful, class envy, taxes don't work.<br /><br />PS. Ted Kennedy has closer ties to the oil industry than does W or Cheney. Maybe you are right and just got the names wrong. You seem long on inuendo and short on facts. How exactly is Bush or Cheney directly associated the oil industry? There isn't a president or department head in congress that doesn't know the primaries at every major oil company by their first name. That is the nature of our current system. :(
 

jimonica

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
313
Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Pointer wrote,<br /><br />"I notice you haven't pointed to Communist Russia when pointing out government taking over the healthcare, oil, and as it seems the automotive industries"<br /><br />When did I ever advocate government taking over health care, oil and automotive industries? :confused: I'm in favor of a single payer health care system but, I don't recall discussing this with you. And I definately did not talk about the government taking over the oil and the automotive industries. Sounds like you pulled that one out of your rear end Pointer. :p <br /><br />My input was on the topic of becoming energy independent, like Brazil did. Apparently you believe if you emulate a success story of another country, then your doomed to all of that country's failures. :rolleyes: I just pointed out how ridiculous that observation is and I think most level headed people would agree.<br /><br />If the oil companies are in fact paying the tax rates you claim, that would be a good thing. That helps to recoup the billions of dollars we're spending over in the Middle East. The oil industry has their own private army over in the Middle East, fighting to keep the oil flowing, only for them to turn around and gouge the American people and set record profits.<br /><br />The tax the government charges for each gallon of gas is to help pay for and maintain our highway system. Better roads and highways are able to move more people from point A to point B. The more people using our roads the more money the oil companies make. So in a perverse way, maybe the government is in a partnership with the oil industry. We use our Armed Forces to assure they get their oil and we build a state of art freeway system to move as many automobiles as possible at any given time, which equates to more fuel being consumed. Which equal record profits to the oil companies. Its a good gig if you can get it.<br /><br />Pointer wrote,<br /><br />"Having friends at Palmer Johnson, a former VP in fact, and a senior designer at Burger, you have no clue. Their profit margin can be lower than that of the oil companies. Your model doesn't work."<br /><br />Are you trying to tell me that some of the lower volume selling product don't have a higher profit margin. Maybe the yacht or aircraft was a bad example, but I'll stand by my premise. For example my wife is currently working for a luxury home builder in the Twin City market that sells approximately 60 to 70 homes a year. Prior to her going to work for them she worked for a higher volume builder that built a lot of town homes and starter homes. The luxury home builder is making roughly 20% were the higher volume builder makes about 10%. The point is we as Americans consume such massive quantities of gas that a bump of 5 or 10 cents can mean millions of dollars in profits. Now you start to add 50 or 75 cents per gallon and, as we're seeing, billions in profits. So yes Pointer, when 6% to 10% profits equal record profits that no other corporations has ever seen, than I'd say they probably could afford to lower that profit margin down a bit.<br /><br />BTW Pointer in one of your other posts, you stated that you sold your brother a boiler pump for something like $59.00. I think you eluded that that price was probably cost. Now be honest, does that pump get sold on wholesale market for a 5 or 10% profit. It probably wouldn't be worth the trouble to stock it for $6 profit. Or, what about the retail market. Not sure but that sounds like a low volume product, one that probably requires a high profit margin. Just a guess.
 

POINTER94

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Re: "W" Saves The Day!

When you advocate a single payer system, with fixed payouts for specific services overseen by the government, and advocate government control over oil companies drilling techniques, transportation, refining, and now the price they can change, yep thats really really close to socialistic. You have eliminated the free market forces. Other than the formality of government ownership, that is, in fact what you have.<br /><br />Stand by your premise if you wish, but prices are based on supply and demand. When supply goes up and demand goes down, prices drop, and vice versa. Your premium builder will drop his prices when the demand for his service drops. That is just a fact. I am thrilled that he can make a living making high quality executive homes. That is what all craftsmen strive for. A good wage for the best work. But if they don't have anyone demanding their services they will ammend their business plan to meet the actual market. That precludes you from dictating when he has made enough money. You can always stop using the product if you have a problem with his way of doing business.<br /><br />I think you can throw in the plastics industry in your conspiracy theory relating to the oil companies. They just keep getting bigger as well. Clearly the black helicopters are controlling the whole operation. So lets add it up, you were wrong on the tax rate for oil companies, who makes the most profits on oil, profits on luxury yachts, not provided any colusion between Prez and VP and the oil companies, while Ted Kennedy owns a small oil company, and you are not a socialist but want government to run the healthcare system (sorry a single payer system set up, ammended, and overseen by the government, with enforcement powers) and the oil industry. (where they can drill, how they can drill, how they can transport, where they can build refineries, who they can buy from, how they can refine, where they can sell, and the price they can charge for their product. You know - Free Market Stuff)<br /><br />Trust me that in the pump industry if you can squeek out 15% you are doing something right. 10% or less is more common. On the pump I was describing in the other post, 10% would be about what is made by the mfg'r on each unit. And there is probably 4-5 mfg'r of that type of pump. Engineered products, (custom to application) 30% is in line and 40% can be had if you can meet specific requirements. (delivery, material of construction, or other unique attributes specific to application) The installer is more likely to make 50%. So when we post record profits you can blame it on the installers, as it takes a professional with specialized equipment to install almost all our pumps. Retail is even more fun, as you must be able to meet their rigourous delivery standards or pay huge financial penalties. And if your pumps don't move, hey eat it. Heaven forbid you actually made a profit in advance of a slow season. Just pay some more taxes.<br /><br />The engine of a countries economy, infastructure and quality of life can be measured by power. Now we can take a look at the whacked out left wing nutcases, protesting at the construction sites of Nuclear Reactors, spending millions on lobbying congress to prevent the construction of refineries, oil exploration, and forcing the non-use of available fuels like coal in favor of Natural gas. So looking at these handicapps, the pathetic nature of Braziles economy, human rights violations, and quality of life and your statement is quite humorous. But hey if you can meet all the requirements and be energy independant, knock yourself out. See if your employer will create a parking space for your burrow. I bet your wife is going to love that mule ride to work each morning. That is if the PETA nutjobs don't stone you to death on the way to work. Better yet lets open up drilling off of the CA coast, in ANWAR and off of Florida. That would do alot towards independence. OOPS, here come those whacko's again. How about a little protest against natural gas fired generation plants and turning them to coal. Not going to happen.<br /><br />Profit isn't a dirty word, and if you think they are gouging, buy some stock and join the party. Better yet, start your own oil company where you only make 1%. Good luck getting a loan. But if you sell millions of gallons, you too can be called a gouger by someone.<br /><br />So now we see that the government is making billions of taxes off of the oil companies, billions off of the consumers, billions off of the support industries and you want to blame the oil companies for gouging for making 6-10% while government are knocking down tons more. But hey, the government can't be gouging. Best recheck the tax rate for oil companies vs. the average. Very neat.<br /><br />I am more than ready to find alternate sources of energy, its the government preventing it. if solar, or wind, or tidal, or cow farts will make the world a better place, I'm all for it. But it isn't that easy. Lets build some nuclear plants, fire up some coal plants, burn some timber, use heat pumps, but lets do it consistant with the laws of the country, and not the whim of the angry mob who think that they are paying an extra 10 cents a gallon more than they are "entitled" to.
 

jimonica

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
313
Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Pointer wrote,<br /><br />"Trust me that in the pump industry if you can squeek out 15% you are doing something right. 10% or less is more common. On the pump I was describing in the other post, 10% would be about what is made by the mfg'r on each unit. And there is probably 4-5 mfg'r of that type of pump. Engineered products, (custom to application) 30% is in line and 40% can be had if you can meet specific requirements. (delivery, material of construction, or other unique attributes specific to application) The installer is more likely to make 50%. So when we post record profits you can blame it on the installers, as it takes a professional with specialized equipment to install almost all our pumps. Retail is even more fun, as you must be able to meet their rigourous delivery standards or pay huge financial penalties. And if your pumps don't move, hey eat it. Heaven forbid you actually made a profit in advance of a slow season. Just pay some more taxes."<br /><br /> :D Just thought that that paragraph needed to read again, because buried in your long rambling dissertation is an admission that some lower volume selling products actually do require higher profit margins, like I've been saying all a long. Thats why your second to the last sentence, where you wrote "Heaven forbid you actually made a profit in advance of a slow season.", I find kind of confusing. :confused: I've been advocating all a long that a producer of a slow moving product needs to be working on a higher profit margin in order to have the wherewithal to stay afloat during slow times. I think your agreeing with me Pointer.<br /><br /><br />Pointer wrote,<br /><br />"So lets add it up, you were wrong on the tax rate for oil companies, who makes the most profits on oil, profits on luxury yachts, not provided any colusion between Prez and VP and the oil companies, while Ted Kennedy owns a small oil company, and you are not a socialist but want government to run the healthcare system (sorry a single payer system set up, ammended, and overseen by the government, with enforcement powers) and the oil industry. (where they can drill, how they can drill, how they can transport, where they can build refineries, who they can buy from, how they can refine, where they can sell, and the price they can charge for their product. You know - Free Market Stuff)"<br /><br /><br />Your making up straw arguments and issues here Pointer. You say I was wrong about the tax rate of oil companies. I never said a tax rate. The following is my actual quote;<br /><br />"That is if they're one of the 40% of corporation that actually pay taxes. Some how I got the feeling the savvy oil companies have managed to avoid paying most of their taxes."<br /><br />Not a very definitive statement on my part. Just a gut feel, based on the fact that in the late 90's some of largest oil companies had negative tax rates even when the were very profitable. I would guess that the reason the oil companies are now paying taxes is because their profits are so massive that they don't have the write offs to off set the taxes they owe.<br /><br />Then you said I was wrong on who makes the most profit on the oil. Wrong again, another straw argument your making up. In fact I told you I didn't know but that I suspected your going to tell me the government.<br /><br />You said I was wrong on luxury yacht profits. Not really, I said "maybe" as an example. My example maybe wrong, or maybe right, you or I don't really know, but the point of my example is correct as you yourself admitted to.<br /><br /><br />Another straw argument on your part is the following charge; <br />"not provided any colusion between Prez and VP and the oil companies, while Ted Kennedy owns a small oil company" I never new you asked me to "provide any collusion"? You want collusion? Thats easy. How about our energy policy being written behind closed doors by the oil companies?<br /><br />Anyway Pointer I'd love to discuss how "single payer" is socialism and some of the other charges you brought up but I've got to study for my brokers test tomorrow morning. :( Have a good day. :cool: :)
 

txswinner

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Apr 24, 2005
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Re: "W" Saves The Day!

This is an amazing arguement. We started with a shortage of oil as a basis for the price gouging. Now it is admitted there is no shortage of oil.<br /><br />So then the gouging was justified as the refiners were hit by Katrina and Rita, then not enough capacity and therefore not enough gasoline being made. Well that went south on us.<br /><br />So then it is because of China and France and therefore back to supply and demand idea.<br /><br />Truth, Oil companies are gouging for the management teams own wealth and greed. $400,000,000 retirment package, come on this is bs and all my right wing buddies know it.<br /><br />What can be done by administration? This is price gouging and is illegal. Why no action? Because those benefitting are in control of the administration. Simple and a fact, like it or not.<br /><br />This does not effect me one bit as I will do as I please even if gas is $10/gal. but will it effect our country, yes it may be the end of middle class America.<br /><br />No love it or leave it crud, I believe in love it and change it when it becomes corrupt. That is all this right wing honky republican has to say about that.
 

Haut Medoc

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Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: "W" Saves The Day!

TX, I agree that it is time for the government to step in & do some "Trust Busting".....JK
 

txswinner

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Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Yep, why did they ever let Exxon and Mobil merge. Bust them all down and let the competition begin, if needed import tax imported gasoline with the understanding that domestic profits will remain guarded. Yes the administration can take action and it has shown to work.<br /><br />Anyone remember when a phone call cost were per minute and you had to rent your phone from Bell? Amazing we all preach free enterprize, supply and demand but then in order to support an unsupportable position held by the administration go blind to the loss of the necessity of competition.
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
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Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Preach on tx. Some people do hear what you are saying.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: "W" Saves The Day!

keep preaching, the contract on this place looks like its gonna fly :) .<br /> ill be living in a sleepy town teaching kids welding and basic technical stuff soon :) <br /> but the sleepy town is in VE where I can afford to live.<br /> :(
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
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Jun 29, 2004
Messages
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Re: "W" Saves The Day!

He is referring to Venezuela I believe....JK
 

txswinner

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Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Fuel is cheap there until Cheney and Rumsfeld invade!!! That is sarcasism.
 

txswinner

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Apr 24, 2005
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Re: "W" Saves The Day!

Do not want to waste bandwidth may get you excommunicated.
 
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