Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

[rodbolt]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

2009 ca motors had cats.
the rest as of jan 01 2010 the rest of the 49 states have catalytic converters if the hull was made after jan 01 2010.
PCM and crusader can still sell the 5.7 carbed engine until 2011.
volvo dropped the 3.0 mercruiser added a cat with MPI.
GM ceased production of the 4.3 and the 8.1.
volvo has about a 2 year inventory of them.
funny story.
was sitting around after class at the VP school in chesapeake VA.
chatting with some collegues that work there now but used to work at some of the same places I have in the past 20 years.
the VP purchasing manager was trying to muscle the GM sales manager for engine purchases.
tried the line of we need engines and are going to buy X amount for a 2 year supply and we need a better price.
the reply was VP is going to purchase enough to run a manufacturing facility for about 3 weeks.
thats how insignificant the marine market is.
thats also why this stuff costs so much.
when GM can produce all the engines VP wants for 2 years in 3 weeks means its not that much.
but yes sterndrive and inboard engine technology falls behind the automotive side, simply due to R&D and parts supply.
most marinizers purchase engines on a 2 to 3 year sales projection.
myself I just ordered a pair of 5.7 315 HP crusaders that are carbed.
carbed cause I own it and the EFI versions are 2000 dollars more.
the cat versions are 4000 dollars more and wont fit my engine box.

 

[seabob4]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

See my post on THT...it's the numbers, man...

 

[dlngr]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Having grown up working on cars,I gotta say I like carburetors too.I can use a screw driver and pliers and fix a carb alongside the road. But these new computerized machines,I won't even open the hood.
But that has no bearing on the OP's sentiment here-40k for a boat with a carburetor?? Un-believable that they can sell such a thing in this day and age.

Oh,I actually started this post just to say I've never seen or heard of a steel engine block or cylinder head any where in the auto or boat world.Where could I see one??

 

[Shamus O'toole]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

I like carbs better. Get out on a big lake where you can't see land and the old gal quits. You can pull your tools out and take apart the carb to clean the crap out and get back on your way. A computer crashes or injectors clog up, and you stuck out on the lake hoping someone will see that you need help. BTDT

I actually have electronic ignition, but I carry an old points/condenser distributor in case of an emergency. Old school is called that for a reason, it usually always works and reliable even though lacking in performance at times.

if an EFI system fails I can pull out a smart phone or i pad and twell you what failed before you even put a wrench to it...it's just a sign of the times...this has been very interesting and informative. I'm a car guy but not new to boating. So do you all think we will ever see and modern boat with a modern drive train that doesn't cost 1 million dollars??

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

The Mercruiser 470 was a great example of the marine industry's attempt at their own stern drive engine. How did that one work out?

 

[Shamus O'toole]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

your gonna have to fill me in on the 470?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

if an EFI system fails I can pull out a smart phone or i pad and twell you what failed before you even put a wrench to it...it's just a sign of the times...this has been very interesting and informative. I'm a car guy but not new to boating. So do you all think we will ever see and modern boat with a modern drive train that doesn't cost 1 million dollars??

Yeah get real! Even with a code scanner you may have a tough time diagnosing it. Lets say for example that you did have a code scanner with you and it said the MAF stopped working? What are you going to do? You are basically stuck! The only good your smart phone is going to do for you is call for a tow.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

your gonna have to fill me in on the 470?

You are kidding right?

 

[ChrisCraftJohnny]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Correct!

No such thing as a steel engine block. Cast Iron, YES.

Cast Iron is not steel.

However, there are machinists that have made a 6061 Aluminum block out of a solid piece. It's not cost effective and they only did it to make the ultimate engine block for some outrageous vehicle.

Johnny

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Correct!

No such thing as a steel engine block. Cast Iron, YES.

Yep...mis typed.

 

[pduquette]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Sounds like a great project ..... Maybe get together w/OOPS for an "ultimate project" peter

 

[LAC_STS]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Code readers have come along since the days of saying P0430. I can hook my net book or iPad to my Cadillac and record over 100 points of data for abbot 5 minutes.

I can the. Look over the data and see what is changing or what is different when something happens.

Yea you can't fix it most of the time but you can tell within a minute what's wrong.

 

[scca vette]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Yeah get real! Even with a code scanner you may have a tough time diagnosing it. Lets say for example that you did have a code scanner with you and it said the MAF stopped working? What are you going to do? You are basically stuck! The only good your smart phone is going to do for you is call for a tow.

lolol My not be able to do much with the smart phone (yet) however if you had a laptop and the tuning software you could make it run on 1 cyl if you wanted. For the average Joe out boating this is not helpfull at all however to somebody that knows what they are doing and has the software they could fix or bypass the issue without ever looking at the motor.

 

[duped]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

From what I gather, the new merc 8.2 is designed mostly in house, due to GM dropping the 8.1. More power than the 8.1, and it has cats. Seems promising, I'll bet they learned a lot from the 470 on what NOT to do. Check it out if you havent yet.

With that Sea Ray I think the 5.7 is perfect. Long running, simple to repair, cheap parts. A switch to the LS series would make replacement manifolds, risers, gasket kits all absurdly priced for quite awhile. And someone buying a smaller boat like that, especially used, is likely to appreciate something proven and cheap to fix, rather than high tech with expensive parts. Just my two cents on the matter.

The high end boat market is nearly 100 percent diesel. The LS series would have a hard time finding its place in the low to mid range. It would be hard to justify the cost. Most smaller boat buyers dont even know what engine they have, nor do they care. Sad but true.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

there will not be change, until the consumer demands it. in this economy, don't look for any changes.

60 % of Florida's Boating related business, are no longer around. this is really great for the independent service shops, we have more work than we can handle.

 

[5150abf]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

The engine makers have recently had to add catalytic converts to engines but only those going to California, it is all about the money.

Cars have modern engines because the government says they have too, if it was soley up to them they would still be putting carbed engines in cars because they are alot cheaper.

At some point the government will require more modern engines in boats and they will change but until then they have engines that do the job well.

You can't just take an engine out of a car and throw it in a boat, they need to be able to handle high rpm for long periods, even the most modern car engine isn't designed for that so they would have to retool which as was pointed out costs 10s of millions of dollars,not gonna happen in this economy.

Also the boat manufacturers are at the mercy of the engine builders, if Mercury doesn't offer a modern engine they can't put it in the boat and there arn't any boat builders big enough to run there own engines.

 

[perchin]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

You can't just take an engine out of a car and throw it in a boat, they need to be able to handle high rpm for long periods, even the most modern car engine isn't designed for that

Odd....... considering my neighboor's did exactly that.... used the 4.3 out of an totalled out S-10 with 36,000 miles..... just used the heads, exhaust manifolds and peices parts off the motor that was previously in her..... They have been running it for the last 3 seasons without issue....

 

[This_lil_fishy]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

That 4.3 is a tank...damn near indestructible in car or boat form...and I am no GM fanboy...so I am not surprised by the swap.


That said, there could also be licencing issues. GM may not allow the boat manufacturers rights to those engine designs. Maybe the same reason we don't see Ford or Chrysler engines anymore...you could bet the farm that if they could use the competition to save money on engines, Merc and Volvo would be right on that.

Ian

 

[sleeper]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Check out GM's new marine engines. The VVT would be awesome in a boat, because it doesn't sacrifice torque for more power. The 6.0 VVT has a superflat torque curve, 400 lb-ft at basically all rpms but still makes peak power at 5600rpm.

http://www.gm.com/vehicles/innovati...engines/specialized/marine/marine_engines.jsp

Newer technologies are out there for boats, but low volume means expensive.

 

[commander315]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

and they make the 5.3 with an aluminum block. The marine industry is at the mercy of GM? Crusader, Mercruiser, volvo are huge companies and if they wanted to they could retool to marinize the current line up of GM motors. Still why the high cost a new boat with technology from the 1990's? I'm talking baseline boats. No electronics...basic hull and motor.

Crusader and Mercrusier are all based on GM Powertrains, btw