Winterization - confusion

[Walt T]

Re: Winterization - confusion

This discussion comes up every year like the Washington Redskins name debate every football season. Drain, adding antifreeze, whatever floats your boat. The corrosion prevention argument is meaningless as an engine will wear out long before any passages corrode through and this has been proven by millions of engines used in salt water. But hey, it's your boat and your money so if you feel better with antifreeze well then it's worth it to you is it not? I generally will point out that drain and fog is all that's necessary but then it's not my boat. None of us will care about your boat the way you do, so decide what you prefer and have at it. We all suggest not using toxic antifreeze. I heard a story of a guy starting up for spring and the antifreeze he drained out got a little spilled and he wasn't concerned. A neighbors dog found it. 'Nuff said?

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Winterization - confusion

What is the correct way to 'fill' to ensure all necessary parts are filled with AF mix ..... in other words where do you pour it in ?

This is a pretty good video to help give you an idea of how to go about doing it.

Winterizing Engine - YouTube

And here is mercruiser going from recommending to required.:facepalm:
MerCruiser Winterization FAQs | Storage & Maintenance MerCruiser FAQs | Mercury Marine

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization - confusion

Video helpful, do you know if the hoses removed for filling with AF are same and same position on 4.3 mpi ?

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization - confusion

We all suggest not using toxic antifreeze. I heard a story of a guy starting up for spring and the antifreeze he drained out got a little spilled and he wasn't concerned. A neighbors dog found it. 'Nuff said?

This only applies to antifreeze containing Ethylene Glycol ... which has now been replaced in RV formulations by Propylene glycol, this is actually a food-grade chemical and non-toxic ... so next doors dog can have a drink if he wants.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization - confusion

OK .... I'm decided .... my way forward will be to follow the directive by Mercruiser (esp as engine under warranty) ... have my annual service, followed by fogging then full block drain.

I will then fill with antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol) to 50% strength ...... that is a huge safety margin on how cold it gets here.
It will be left in over Winter. (RV antifreeze not common in UK)
I'll pre-mix and check with Hydrometer for strength.

This way I know I'm good to go on freezing & corrosion protection.


I do have 2 Q's ....

# Anybody know quantity of water required to fill cooling system of 4.3 MPI

# Anybody able to confirm the hoses to remove to fill ... are they same as in video clip above ?

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization - confusion

OK .... I'm decided .... my way forward will be to follow the directive by Mercruiser (esp as engine under warranty) ... have my annual service, followed by fogging then full block drain.

I will then fill with antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol) to 50% strength ...... that is a huge safety margin on how cold it gets here.
It will be left in over Winter. (RV antifreeze not common in UK)
I'll pre-mix and check with Hydrometer for strength.

This way I know I'm good to go on freezing & corrosion protection.


I do have 2 Q's ....

# Anybody know quantity of water required to fill cooling system of 4.3 MPI

# Anybody able to confirm the hoses to remove to fill ... are they same as in video clip above ?

I also have a new 4.3 still under warranty.
It will get to -45 or colder here. Its -11 today.
My block is drained and the motor fogged. Done.
Adding that A/F is pointless and in my opinion actually increases the risk of freeze damage.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization - confusion

Your boat your call .... but do you honestly think Mercruiser would reccoemend doing this if it increased likelihood of damage ? ...

As my engine is under warranty I'll follow manufacturers statement to fill with AF.
It also has anti-corrosion properties.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Winterization - confusion

Well, they also 'recommend' that you have your winterization done by an authorized Mercruiser dealer....

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization - confusion

Your boat your call .... but do you honestly think Mercruiser would reccoemend doing this if it increased likelihood of damage ? ...

As my engine is under warranty I'll follow manufacturers statement to fill with AF.
It also has anti-corrosion properties.

Your block will never rust out from the inside from this type of corrosion in your lifetime. I have scrap blocks sitting beside the shop that have been out in the weather for decades. My manual also says that. But thats an option I choose not to use. As a mechanic, I can see the complications of adding A/F to the block. I would never dump anything but full strength A/F in and that is if I had to do it. But its not required so I don't.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization - confusion

I appreciate as a mechanic you may choose not to follow manufacturers directives ... but if an engine under warranty failed, and supplier can prove I did not follow what they require - that is an easy way to invalidate warranty ...

This is from Mercury web site:

Q. ... Do I need to put antifreeze into the raw-water/seawater section of the cooling system after draining?

MerCruiser requires the use of propylene glycol antifreeze (with a rust inhibitor for marine engines) in the seawater section of the cooling system. Damage caused by freezing or improper winterization is not covered by the limited factory warranty.


Note the very specific use of word "requires" .... in law if you did not do this then they do not have to hold to the warranty.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Winterization - confusion

^^^^^^^ Follow Mercury's requirements since it's under warranty...... You'd be foolish not too......

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization - confusion

I appreciate as a mechanic you may choose not to follow manufacturers directives ... but if an engine under warranty failed, and supplier can prove I did not follow what they require - that is an easy way to invalidate warranty ...

This is from Mercury web site:

Q. ... Do I need to put antifreeze into the raw-water/seawater section of the cooling system after draining?

MerCruiser requires the use of propylene glycol antifreeze (with a rust inhibitor for marine engines) in the seawater section of the cooling system. Damage caused by freezing or improper winterization is not covered by the limited factory warranty.


Note the very specific use of word "requires" .... in law if you did not do this then they do not have to hold to the warranty.

The Merc dealer where I live does not add anything after draining. And on brand new boats. He has also told me that more blocks are cracked by adding A/F than anything else. He's been at it for decades so I trust his opinion.
If you fill your block with A/F, and it cracks, you have zero warranty anyway.
But tell me why I need to have A/F in the block to begin with?

 

[mr 88]

Re: Winterization - confusion

So your saying the new dealer does not follow Mercruisers instructions,even though they probably sold you the boat ? Now in your last post you state that it is required by Merc for your warranty,so why did you even post this in the first place if you knew what there warranty states ? How long is there limited warranty on your drive train ?

For a number of years my I/O boats have been winterized by a dealer .. and it included filling with anti-freeze mix.
Last year changed boat & dealer ... and his winterizing used no anti-freeze, his comments were that it is better just to drain down.
Now my 4.3MPI has single point draining , so agree that is easy.

However previously I had understood drain down was juts a way of extending season - prevent being caught by sudden frost, but that full winterization & layup should include anti-freeze mix ...

Anybody know what is the official line form Mercruiser ?

 

[Lou C]

Re: Winterization - confusion

Arrg...all it takes is doing it the RIGHT WAY!!!
Drain and backfill...that's what Merc says...what OMC said etc...
If you just follow what it says in the damn manual... You'll never have a problem...that happens when people take shortcuts...
And with all due respect...fresh water boaters don't really know about corrosion.. Do you routinely have to replace manifolds and risers between 5-7 years? I don't think so... But we do or you get salt water in a cylinder. Blocks and heads DO rust through here...ask tpenfield that's what happened to the raw water cooled engine in his Formula 242....so I keep filling mine with -100 no tox...that's what works here in the salt pond.
Leaving a block outside in the air, is no where the same as running salt water through it every time you run it. Even worse, is at the end of a season of running it, is to just drain it and leave it dry, the air gets at it and air+salt crystals= major corrosion. You pour in antifreeze and there is no air. Therefore less corrosion. Fresh water flushing does not get all the salt crystals out. You can see that every time you change an impeller or thermostat.
Merc probably added this part about adding antifreeze, because some of their customers to boat in salt water.

I bet you have painted steel trailers too..well those turn into scrap heaps of iron oxide here in about 5 seasons....galvanized ones can last 15-20 years....
Anything on a galvanized trailer that is not galvanized, aluminum, or cad plated, is going to rust like crazy. The only way I keep my leaf springs from rusting, is to thoroughly coat them with heavy marine grease and then spray with Boeshield or Corrosion X....same concept....keep oxygen away from the iron in the steel. They do not have any rust on them at all, you look at most trailers here the leaf springs are all rusted to crap....as I said.....We know Corrosion.....the enemy is oxygen....as much as salt water....keep out the oxygen...your iron lasts much longer.....ya gotta go back to high school chemistry to understand this stuff.....

Here's what a set of one piece OMC manifolds look like after 5.5 seasons in salt...you can see one outlet totally clogged with rust...these had not rusted through but continued use becomes risky....compare the old one to the new....now in fresh water....I hear manifolds last at least 10-15 years.....if not indefinitely....so you can see...we have a different set of challenges here.....

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization - confusion

I'm with you on that, all boating is saltwater.
Hence I have hub flush kit on trailer, flush hubs and rinse trailer with an X-Salt injector on my hose .... do this immediately after flushing engine with it after each day out.