winterize - thrermostat - antifreeze

[QBhoy]

I'm sure we all watch the discovery channel right ?
When you see the ship wrecks found on the sea bed and the cannons from these old ships are found in tact and usually preserved pretty well after hundreds of years ?
Take those same cannons to the surface and they will rust and most likely fall to bits.
Same thing ??

 

[shaw520]

Being submerged in water alone does not neccesarily inhibit rust,... deep ocean floors where oxygen levels are very low will promote less corrosion, but water is a key contributer. Without rust inhibitors your not doing yourself much good. Intersting article here http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/marine-corrosion.asp

 

[QBhoy]

Ok...can't be bothered with an argument really.
The fact is, there is less oxygen to attack the metal when there is a liquid in the block and risers, than when left empty and damp.
We could all probably go on all day about it.
Another fact is that all the mercuiser and Volvo Penta dealers now stick antifreeze in the block.
That's what I'm doing now. Others I'm sure can stick to their own preference.
All the best.

 

[QBhoy]

Should have mentioned. All merxruiser and Volvo penta shops are doing this....where I live. Before anyone corrects me. Haha.

 

[thumpar]

My 1983 was drained and still kicking when I sold it. I have never heard of a block rusting through.

 

[airshot]

Well I see I need to clarify myself on draining my boat into my stone driveway. Yes I do drain and capture as much of the antifreeze as possible and discard it properly at the local automotive store. What ever is remaining is then flushed out into the driveway as I test run the engine. And yes I have contacted the local authorities about legality and as long as the bulk of the antifreeze is captured the left over is not an issue. It was stated that the diluted leftover is not a problem with the EPA according to my local authorities. There is no way I would allow that concentration of antifreeze into the lake or where it doesn't belong. According to the local authorities the weed spray used in the farms in my area is far more toxic than the diluted antifreeze washed and filtered thru my stone driveway!

 

[bruceb58]

I had a manifold that I took off my boat and it sat for many years on the side of my house. Never noticed it corrode get additionally from when I took it off.

My Volvo service or owners manual states nothing about putting antifreeze in during the winter.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Not sure where you came up with that.

https://www3.epa.gov/region9/waste/p2/autofleet/antifreeze.pdf

Specific to Michigan but references information from the EPA & DEQ: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-ead-tas-antifrez_320830_7.pdf

Guys...... He's talking about Propylene Glycol (AKA RV anti-freeze) AND AIRCRAFT DE-ICING FLUID


And according to DOW Chemical

Environmental releases ? Small quantities of propylene glycol may be released into the environment if consumer products that contain them are poured down the drain. Because propylene glycol is completely soluble, once it is introduced to water, it will tend to remain dissolved in water. Because propylene glycol is readily biodegradable, it will be removed by sewage treatment plants. In the event of a spill, the focus is on containing the spill to prevent contamination of soil and surface or ground water. Propylene glycol is practically nontoxic to fish and other aquatic organisms

So CHILL! (pun intended!!)

And by comparison, Airports DUMP millions of gallons of that stuff "down the drain" de-icing aircraft every winter! they DO try to collect it using vac trucks and drain catch basins etc but they don't get it all!

Chills & Cheers,

Rick

 

[Oshkosh1]

To be honest, I'd be more concerned with corrosion during the "winter" in the lower latitudes. Here, where we see a winter with very cold, very dry air it's not very conducive to corroding anything in a static condition. Also, as I stated once that pink stuff gets down in the -20's or so, it turns into a slushy which is not good either. IF you live somewhere(most locations) where it doesn't get that cold and stays damp then I might see the argument pendulum swaying the other way but even then I don't know if I'd go through the hocus pocus for only a few months. Maybe if it were going into long term(more than a year) storage I'd be more apt to add AF but for simply a 3-6month hibernation? Probably not.

In my vintage aircraft and car world there is never a single method to winterize or store either. Too many variables based on climate, storage condition(inside/outside) and duration.

One size does NOT fit all I suppose...

 

[HT32BSX115]

In my vintage aircraft

Picture please!!!!!

 

[Mule Laker]

Very interesting thread with many good opinions.

All I've done to my 3.0 so far is drain the two blue water hoses and change the engine oil. Trying to figure if I need to do anything else besides lower unit oil? Just the basics this year, had the impeller and some other items changed out last season.



Are you guys saying I should actually remove the blue hoses and check for crud? A lot of water came out of them very quickly.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Very interesting thread with many good opinions.

All I've done to my 3.0 so far is drain the two blue water hoses and change the engine oil. Trying to figure if I need to do anything else besides lower unit oil? Just the basics this year, had the impeller and some other items changed out last season.

Remove the blue water hose connections from the engine block. (permanently)

Poke a nail/screwdriver in the holes to free up the rust flakes blocking the hole to drain the water still trapped in the block.

 

[stonyloam]

Also, as I stated once that pink stuff gets down in the -20's or so, it turns into a slushy which is not good..

OK there seems to be a lot of misinformation going around here. If you have water in a closed vessel (engine block e.g.) and you lower the temperature, as the water gets colder its volume decreases until it hits about 42 degrees F, at which point it begins to expand. When it freezes it expands by about 10%, (that is why ice floats, because its density is less than liquid water) and if your block is full the expanding ice has no where to go and will exert enough force to crack the cast iron walls of the water jacket. Most liquids (including RV antifreeze) when cooled decrease in volume, and when they freeze decrease in volume even more. So if your engine block is filled with "pink stuff" even if it freezes it will do no damage because it DOES NOT EXPEND. -50 RV antifreeze does not give freeze protection, but gives BURST protection down to -50.


Now for the rust stuff. Rust is Fe2O3. So to get rust you need exposed iron, oxygen and water (to help things along). To protect your block in the winter you could do one of three things: Dry it out ( not practical) or limit the oxygen by a) filling with a liquid (antifreeze) or b) draining the block and putting the drain plugs back in. Now how much rust are you going to make with the air in the block? If you figure about 2 gal. of air, about 15 grams of O2 if you consumed it ALL it would make about 20 grams of rust. Since the entire internal surface is already coated with rust the chances of O2 reacting with unoxidized iron is pretty low. Assuming worst case your 20 grams of rust in an engine with 90,000 grams of iron is not something that you should worry too much about.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Assuming worst case your 20 grams of rust in an engine with 90,000 grams of iron is not something that you should worry too much about.

Let me add to that!!

My last boat (with a 1966 Mercruiser 150) lasted 39 years until I sold it. It hadn't rusted out and was only drained once a year.

IT WENT 39 YEARS! (Hours on the engine don't have much to with rust-rates)

Most marine engines (and boats) are in the junkyard or at the bottom of the deep blue sea WAY before that.

I am not going to worry much about about rust. If it bothers you (anyone) enough to try to mitigate it, install closed cooling!

 

[shaw520]

^^^^ Well Said Stonyloam.

 

[QBhoy]

Stonyloam/Terry,

Great post and loving the science....not sure where the 2 gallons and 15g of O2 comes from though ?
Surely the block would be open to atmosphere in the described method (no antifreeze) and throwing your calculations (nice as they were) right out the window ?
I'm sure we all have our methods. As long as they work for us all....

 

[bruceb58]

Stonyloam/Terry,

Great post and loving the science....not sure where the 2 gallons and 15g of O2 comes from though ?
Surely the block would be open to atmosphere in the described method (no antifreeze) and throwing your calculations (nice as they were) right out the window ?
I'm sure we all have our methods. As long as they work for us all....

Capacity of the cooling system and amount of O2 in 2 gallons of air.

His explanation makes total sense to me.

Go ahead and do your antifreeze if it makes you feel better. I am guessing you boat in salt water since you are so worried about it.

 

[stonyloam]

Oops, made a mistake, I did the calculation for a cubic foot of air, not a gallon. So just rough numbers a cubic foot of air (at normal pressure) weighs about 36 grams, about 7 gal/ cu ft = about 5 g of air/gal, air is about 20% oxygen, so 1g/gal = 2 grams of O2, will make about 3 grams of Fe2O3, not 20. If you put the plugs back in, you restrict the available O2 to what is in the block. Air is about 20% O2 and 80% Nitrogen, with a bunch of trace gasses, and I did not take the differences in atomic weights, so the calculation is pretty rough. Still not much to worry about.

 

[QBhoy]

Bruceb/stoneyloam
My boat isn't in salt water. Fresh water. It's just that it is the notorious single point drain and I don't trust it. It's easier for me to fill with antifreeze.
Also, I am trying to prolong the life of risers manifolds and perhaps less of a worry...the block.
I'm afraid the calculation above still doesn't make sense at all for me. Even with the plugs in....you still have those two big holes called exhausts. The atmosphere is free to enter through exhaust, risers and via thermostat and into block....am I wrong ?

 

[bruceb58]

If you are in freshwater, even less issue. First of all, you aren't getting hardly anything into the risers. The risers don't hold much water. Second of all, doing nothing, freshwater manifolds and risers will last longer than the boat.

Your bigger issue is not getting rid of the single point drain. Hoping you re getting all the water out and adding AF to that is rolling the dice. You did read everything above about getting rid of the single point drain right?