You Will not Believe This!!

JGREGORY

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Something that provided comfort and solace to the family and victims is now seen as offensive. I don't get it? :confused: <br /><br />NewsFlash Home | More Jersey + Metro News<br /><br />Jersey + Metro News<br /><br />Cross at ground zero draws complaints from atheist group <br /><br />The Associated Press <br />9/8/2003, 2:13 p.m. ET <br /><br />TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — A steel beam in the symmetrical shape of a cross — a remnant from the World Trade Center wreckage — has drawn criticism from an atheist group, which objects to the artifact being kept at ground zero as a religious emblem.<br /><br /> <br /><br />The trade center site is owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the bistate governmental agency that also operates the region's three major airports and bridges and tunnels connecting the two states.<br /><br />"Many people who died on September 11 weren't Christian. There were Jews, Muslims, and atheists who died," Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists based in New Jersey, told The Trentonian newspaper for Monday's edition. "This is a Christian religious advertisement, and allowing it to stay there is an insult to everyone who doesn't believe in that particular religion."<br /><br />Johnson and her group, founded by the late Madelyn Murray O'Hare, is considering a lawsuit to prevent the beam from becoming part of any permanent memorial to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.<br /><br />The beam was discovered two days after the attacks by construction worker Frank Silecchia as he searched for survivors.<br /><br />A Franciscan priest, the Rev. Brian Jordan, blessed the cross and used it for months as a gathering place to celebrate Sunday Mass for ground zero workers and family members.<br /><br />The names of fallen police officers and firefighters were also scribbled on the cross, along with the message "May God forgive their evil."<br /><br />Almost two years later, the 20-foot cross remains along Church Street, the eastern border of the 16-acre site. A petition was undertaken to make it a part of a permanent memorial.<br /><br />The Lower Manhattan Development Corp., a city-state group overseeing the rebuilding of the area, has made no decisions on what a ground zero memorial would include.<br /><br /> <br />--------------------------------------------------<br />Disregard some of my earlier post about religion and Governement. These people should be rounded up and shipped to some country that does not promoted religious beliefs.
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China comes to mind. I forget where it came from but someone once said there are no athiests in a fox hole. I would send them to the military but I would not want to detriment our fighting ability.
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mikeandronda

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

I am getting very sick of what seems to me an attack on Christianity. Whats next sueing churches for having crosses on display. If the atheists have their way it would be illegel to have any religion other than no religion in view of the public. hmmmmmmmmm sounds like some of the countries we as Americans strive to be different from. I have said it before and will say it again It is freedom OF religion not Freedom FROM religion. Wich means for those of you who questioned that statment before ....You can be what ever religion you want and so can I.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Oh and by the way mabe we should detroy anything in nature that might resemble a cross because from what I understand it was the way that the beams fell and the inteanse heat that caused them to form into the shape of a cross.
 

aspeck

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

mikeandrhonda, you said it well - "Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion." Why did we forget this and when will it be remembered again?
 

JB

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Hmmmm.<br /><br />What of crosses over graves, or Stars of David?<br /><br />Most of you know that my religious beliefs are very private and that I object to the mixing of religious symbols, ceremonies and practices into non-religious environments and off of private property.<br /><br />However. . .<br /><br />At "Ground Zero", the honoring of the religious beliefs of many who died there in no way "insults" the beliefs of others. The same would be true of Stars of David or symbols of the beliefs of the many other non-Christians who share the "grave".<br /><br />Atheists, it seems, can be just as arrogantly intolerant as anyone else.
 

JGREGORY

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Amen, JB. Pun Definitly Intended..<br /><br />I am so tired of those who are in the minority screaming the loudest determining the the path and beliefs of the majority. The cross belongs there as a symbol of faith, commitment, and solidarity for everthing evil that happened that day.
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Skiuseme

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Jun 18, 2003
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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Well Im getting mighty darn sick of these people that are saying we cant have a cross there. Its actually sad that they are doing this. Next for all we know these same people are going to whine about the crosses in the cemetary for the fallen soldiers. :mad: JUST BE GALD YOU LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY AND YOU HAVE THIS FREEDOM OF CHOICE. IN OTHER COUNTRIES YOU DONT HAVE THAT OPTION....
 

braindead0

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Well, I'm sick and tired that I can't have a bonfire and Samhain festival there, or butcher a cow, or conduct satanic worship services there.<br /><br />If you can't include all religions, then you must include none.. period. And there's no way you'd ever manage to include all religions anyway.
 

NOSLEEP

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Oct 30, 2002
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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Well what do you expect.<br />Religion especially christianity is declining<br />moral standards are virtually no where to be found.<br />Its a what ever floats your boat society and <br />mentality.What you think is a standard for<br />American culture is fast becoming an insult to<br />a growing number of special interest groups. They<br />are determined to change the face of "Standard".<br />And the public is to busy or self absorbed to <br />notice or care.<br />What they plant now, They will harvest later.<br />Wake up America.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Isn't Arlington National Cemetary a federal site? How come they have has about a billion crosses, stars of David etc.?<br /><br />And Braindead, be blessed :)
 

braindead0

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

I think perhaps context, the crosses at Arlington cemetery are over graves of people who's family presumably chose that. This is a personal choice, the Government aspect of it is simply facilitating.<br /><br />Nobody asked the survivors of WTC...<br /><br />Where do you draw the line though, personally I could care less about a meaningless symbol, now plastering public buildings with specific scriptures (from a specific interpretation/twisting of some ancient text) is going too far.
 

JGREGORY

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Braindead, Please tell me you are being sarcastic. This piece of the WTC was used as a ralling point during the rescue attempt and subsequent clean-up. This goes far beyond being a religious symbol. This piece reprsents not only the Christians that were murdered but everyone that was murdered there, including athiests. I'll bet everyone that was in those Towers that day was praying to a god if not to the Christian God.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

hey Braindead I didnt say you shouldnt be able to what ever YOUR religion does and I didnt say you shouldnt be able to worship what ever god you do. I for one want the ten commandments to stay in public veiw, I for one want crosses to be displayed publicly. On the other hand I have no problem with other religions publicly displaying their symbols of faith as long as they are not obscene or offensive. To be honest we live in a country that is supposed to be a democracy, so when the magority wants something and the minority stops it from happening I have to wonder what the heck that has to do with Democracy.
 

NOSLEEP

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Thats the beauty of a democracy.<br />The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
 

braindead0

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Messages
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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

not obscene or offensive
And therein lies the problem. If I painted a giant pentagram on the side of my house, the nuts would come out and pickett.<br /><br />Legislating morality is useless. Terms like 'offensive' or 'obscene' are subjective and have no place in public policy or law.
 

JGREGORY

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Your House Did not have a jetliner crashed into it killing 3,000 people. <br />
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Kilgore Trout

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Apr 9, 2003
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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

For gods sake its a piece of twisted metal that looks like a cross. Its like seeing the virgin mary in a tortilla or a potato(e) chip that looks like richard nixon.<br /><br />Let it stand. It provides comfort to those that need it.
 

NOSLEEP

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Symbol: Something that stands for or represents <br />another thing.especialy an object used to <br />represent another thing.<br />An act or object representing an unconscious <br />desire that has been repressed.
 

12Footer

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Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Well what do you expect.<br />Religion especially christianity is declining<br />moral standards are virtually no where to be found.<br />Its a what ever floats your boat society and <br />mentality.What you think is a standard for<br />American culture is fast becoming be an insult to<br />a growing number of special interest groups. They<br />are determined to change the face of "Standard".<br />And the public is to busy or self absorbed to <br />notice or care.<br />What they plant now, They will harvest later.<br />Wake up America. <br />Well said,NOSLEEP! and AMEN!<br /><br />I'll put up whatever I want on my property, and if I am so moved, and I have permission on other property by owners, TRY to take it down!!!<br /><br />"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do"<br />Jesus on the cross
 
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