You Will not Believe This!!

[JGREGORY]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Well said 12 footer.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Braindead you have the "right" to put up a pentagram if you would like. I am saying we should all have the right to have our veiws in the open. If you take your time and money to do so I for one would not fight it unless as I said before it was obcene or offensive. I think we as intellgent adults can figure out that a nude picture or something that puts down or attacks another group would fit into the catagory, but a upsidedown star in a circle as much as I hate what it stands for is not either one of those things. Here in Lacrosse the so called freedom fighters ( the atheists faught to have the commandments taken out of a park and all it did was to get many of us Christians get 10 comandment signs and put them in our yards.

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Thats a great IDEA... mikeandronda.

 

[braindead0]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

not fight it unless as I said before it was obcene or offensive.

There you go putting personal subjective opinions into the mix. I have no idea what other people would find offensive. For example, if you wanted to have a 12' genitalia sculpture in your front yard.. I would not find that offensive..<br />

I think we as intellgent adults can figure out that a nude picture or something that puts down or attacks another group would fit into the catagory

Intelligent adults realize that images and words do not attack anyone.

, but a upsidedown star in a circle as much as I hate what it stands for is not either one of those things.

Of course.. immediately assume upside-down? And assume it 'stands for' something? A symbol doesn't 'stand' for anything by itself, it's the viewing person who ascribes some meaning to it. <br /><br />I think it was Elenor Roosevelt who said

nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent

You can replace inferior, insulted, offended, scared, guilty and any other emotion in place of inferior.

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

I dont think so. I could scare you without your<br />consent, believe me!<br />The saying is true though.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

ok braindead I guess in your opinion it has to be all or nothing but truth be told there is right and wrong and its not hard to figure out if you want a 12 ft statue of somebody genitals in your yard where you stand on right from wrong ( I do have children I want to raise with morals) and yes public nudity is illegal so our leaders who we have VOTED into power have deemed it offensive. as for a symbol of your faith, your upsidedown, rightside up, sideways star,cross or whatever you wish to show as a symbol of your faith is your right. I could give a rip on what you call your symbol just expect me as I would expect to defend my faith. AS for your comment on Intellegent adults relize that sybols do not attack people...DUH!!!!!!!! Its what is behind them that is the attack. Oh by the way I am not any of these things you wrote....inferior, insulted, offended, scared, guilty. I for one feel I am eqaul to others and no more. we need to allow everbody's opinion to heard,seen and considered but There are people out in this world we live in, who like to take advantage of that and push the envolope. It would not suprise if a pentagram( upside down or rightside up ) means nothing to you, but in order install some sort of argument about my faith not being out in public places you find a symbol that my offend those in my religion.

 

[braindead0]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

truth be told there is right and wrong

There is no absolute right and absolute wrong, only opinions.<br />

yes public nudity is illegal so our leaders who we have VOTED into power have deemed it offensive

A statue isn't public nudity, perhaps it's a work of art to somebody. <br /><br />And it's only illegal in some places.. so it's only offensive there?<br />

AS for your comment on Intellegent adults relize that sybols do not attack people...DUH!!!!!!!! Its what is behind them that is the attack.

What is behind them? Ghosts, things people percieve in their mind that have no substance or reality. Some people associate the Christian religion with an estimated 6 million people killed during 300 years of 'Witch Trials'.<br /><br />Does that mean that 'Witch hunters' are behind every Christian church? No..it sure doesn't.<br /><br />

Oh by the way I am not any of these things you wrote....inferior, insulted, offended, scared, guilty

And yet you complain about being offended by inanimate objects. That's just plain irrational.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Just leave the symbols in place for the sake of the symbol minded...<br /><br />Cross, Star of David, Pentogram, The Fish, whatever symbol you choose... This athiest has respect for all religion and I understand the importance some religeions place on it's symbols.... Long as your particular beliefs don't include killing me, I don't care....<br /><br /> My take... If Ya don't like the symbol, take it with a grain of salt and look at something else.... <br /><br />Good grief!

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Your correct, right from wrong is an opinion, But to just let everybody decide what should be allowed in public, we would have anarchy. Let me ask you this...Is murder wrong? How about theft? how about kidknapping? I would say yes if it harms someone it is wrong. Public nudity doesnt bother me but I dont want my young kids to have to see it. When something may harm inocents I would say it should not have support. All I am saying is that we all have the right to have our "faith" displayed. It seems we have gotten a bit off subject here so lets go back to the begining. 9/11 happens, afterwards people find some twisted burnt I-beams in the shape of a cross. The find comfort in it and start to use it a rally point for prayer and to come to meet with other hurt people. A group of people (Athiests) are obviously offened that these people have faith in something they can not see so they set out to destroy it. Now this is all fact. My question to you is not what faith is right or wrong or even what is the difference between right and wrong but what right do they have to complain about somebody elses beliefs being public when all they do is scream about there rights to believe in what they do to the public. As far as im conserned it is just a piece of metal...it is not a holy relic that brings people closer to god, it does not stop you from believing what you believe in. let it be. This is America where we all have a right to be who we want in public as long as it does not hurt anybody else.I dont need a sybol for me to feel close to God. Im not tring to attack anybodys beliefs, just defending their rights to have them in public.

 

[braindead0]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

The problem is when some government entity chooses to support a particular belief system over all others. Perhaps not removing this bit of metal doesn't cost anything, but now these people are using it as a 'rallying point' and probably leaving trash around.. and using public services...etc.. Costing the tax payers money to support their personal choice. On the other hand perhaps they spend their money at local businesses too.<br /><br />Move it to private property and there is no issue.<br /><br />I agree that some groups on both sides have gone well beyond what's reasonable.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

I agree braindead, our government should not fund this type of thing and in situation like this if people are abuseing the area(littering and cuaseing problems) it should be dealt with. Maybe the solution is to move it to privet property. What gets me so mad is when it seems like it is an attack on anybody because it is a religion not for the reason of the government should be neutral. To me I am proud of being a Christian, I will also defend your and anybody elses choice of faith as long as it is not a danger to anybody. It is a touchy subject we are debateing right now so I must say im sorry if I have offended you and in no way wish to anger anybody. So all I can say is peace to you and yours.

 

[braindead0]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Remember, you can't offend me without my permission.. and hopefully likewise for you.<br /><br />

 

[Hooty]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Ah 12' genitalia? Don' know about that but we found a 5' Chicken Snake in the barn once.<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty

 

[dakotashooter2]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Fair is fair, If the cross is left other religious symbols should be allowed also. The athiests are welcome to put their symbol there also. Wait... no belief... no symbol... oh well better luck next time guys.I'm not sure what their problem is. If you're not a Christian and the cross has no meaning to you then you shouldn't be threatened by it and it is just another piece of art. We do still alow art in public places don't we. I would say if private funding were made available to let it remain, it should be allowed to remain.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Right on Dakotashooter

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Sadly, I have come to understand much more clearly in the last 12 hours or so why the secularists and atheists are winning.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Atheists are NOT a reconized group in the USA, for the simple fact that they do not support God and Country!<br /><br />When will this country start to reconize this fact and DEPORT THEM!!<br /><br />Or put them against a wall and shoot them as the enemy!!<br /><br />Because thats what they are...THE ENEMY!!!<br /><br />Welcome to the United States of Morons, because that is what we are becoming, and the whole world is laughing at us!<br /><br />Kenny

 

[plywoody]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Yes, we must deport all people who do not think the proper way as dictated by the government. What do you think democracy and freedom is all about, anyway? (I could not resist that one!)<br /><br />At any rate, being one that thinks keeping religion and the state is crucially important, I think they are out of line on this one. If this metal was a natural occurance of 9/11, put it up and let it stand.<br /><br />As long as there is not some sort of message on it indicating it is some sort of "message from God" or something.<br /><br />For those that want to believe it is some sort of message from god, so be it--good for them. For those of us that think it is the random result and reminder of a horrible tragedy, and has absolutely nothing to do with god or religion, we are free to do that as well.<br /><br />Just as it should be.

 

[plywoody]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

I meant, of course, to say keeping religion separate from the state...

 

[SCO]

Re: You Will not Believe This!!

Wow Kenny. You are the poster boy for why governments should not be run by church with that last post. Fortunately your views have no teeth, by design. What you propose has actually occurred many times in history, and is the very reason that the likes of UBL want to get us. To him, we are all athiests.