1994 Four Winns Horizon 215 5.8L EFI OMC

[alldodge]

Do agree that parts may be hard to find (have not looked much) but if the fuel rail is full of crud, when the motor first fires up its going to push that stuff into the injectors. I would remove the fuel rail and clean it with clean gas or carb cleaner. Don't use carb cleaner on rubber parts.

Rubber fuel line needs to be USCG type A1

You can roll the dice and see if it will run without cleaning

 

[platinumedge]

So, for "tonight's performance," I was able to remove:

• The (engine) water pump. It was "kind of" frozen until I disassembled it. All parts appear in very good condition, including the (flexible) impeller. There are remnants of rust on the internal components, but I think I can easily remedy that.
• The bilge pump. I have never gotten any "action" from that pump, so I pulled it out to look at it. As with most other parts, it appears fine. Since I had drained the bilge, I probably didn't have enough water in there to activate the pump (it has a float valve). However I will test it outside of the boat.
• The blower. Again, never got any action out of it, but could be a fuse, etc.
• The (fuel) low-pressure pump/filter assembly, located on the front of the engine.

Next I will work on removing the fuel rail, and inspecting/cleaning it.

In playing around with the AM/FM/Cassette, I pushed the WX button. Now I can't get it to go back to FM??!! I've tried pushing everything, but I can't get FM back. Any recommendations?

P.S. I plugged my Jeep into the electrical connection on the trailer and all the lights are working!! The guy that towed it over to my house said that it seemed as though the surge brakes were working. (It's a dual-axle, with brakes on both.) At some point I will "take it out for a drive" and see if the brakes are working. I also think it would be prudent to jack the trailer up, pull the wheels (one at a time), and inspect the brakes/ and bearings - probby just plan on replacing the bearings, eh?

Cheers to all.

 

[Scott Danforth]

replace the impeller. VP suggests every 3 years.

simply replace the blower

replace the radio

 

[platinumedge]

It was fairly easy to remove the fuel rails; a couple of the injectors came out, but most remained. Just a few drops of clear gasoline dripped out of the rails, all other pieces were clean and dry. The tips of the two injectors I can see seem clean. I can't find any sludge/residue in these components, nor the low-pressure pump assembly. I think I'm going to skip pulling the high-pressure pump (it's a little more difficult, being at the back of the engine), unless anyone strongly recommends otherwise. My decision is based on what I've seen thus far. The only real issue I've come across is that the butterfly valve in the throttle body was completely stuck. There's no rust, just some crud. The throttle only adjusts the amount of air flowing into the intake, so it's not directly associated with the fuel delivery system. I pulled a few of the fuel system sensors and they all look good, too.

Next steps are to do a bit of cleaning of the fuel system parts and then reinstall them. Order a new water pump impeller and bilge pump (I was able to get the blower back into action).

My next question is this: I still don't really know if this engine will run - could be other unseen, unknown issues. And there's still 50 gallons of gasoline in the tank. Having to remove and dispose of this fuel is probably going to be a messy, ugly job; siphoning 5 gallons out at a time (biggest container I could find), putting it in my car and taking it to a gas station for disposal - probably 10 trips! Alternatively, I could buy a longer fuel hose and 5 (or less) gallons of fresh fuel, and try to start it off of that; to begin with. If it runs okay then I would be prepared for the laborious task of removing the 50 gallons. Comments??

Regarding the tilt system: Apologies: I was thinking of trim tabs, which my boat does not have. I'll look for a reservoir that holds hydraulic fluid for the tilt system. I see what appears to be some sort of hydraulic system attached to the inside of the transom, right behind the engine - probably the tilt system. But I can't immediately see where one would check/add fluid. I assume this system is going to be inside the boat, not part of the outdrive? I see the two hydraulic pistons/cylinders on the outside of the boat, on either side of the outdrive. I assume those are part of the tilt system??

Thanks gentlemen - have a great weekend!

 

[alldodge]

The throttle only adjusts the amount of air flowing into the intake, so it's not directly associated with the fuel delivery system.

The throttle plate is connected to the throttle position sensor (TBI) and tells the ECM its position to adjust fuel

longer fuel hose and 5 (or less) gallons of fresh fuel

Yes, just stick the hose going to the filter into the can and run off it

Thrim trim system is part of the transom assembly

 

[crack head]

I would add a bottle of K-100 to your fuel tank. Most of that stuff is snake oil but this product actually works. As far as muffs go to winterize, forget it. If you're not comfortable doing it yourself take it to a shop. Do it wrong, & it could cost you thousands. Best of luck!

 

[Lou C]

I've posted on this site about this many times but the only way to winterize a raw water cooled engine is to drain everything manually, poke all drain holes, to make sure all the raw water is out. Remember:
you drain to prevent freeze damage
you add AF (optional) to reduce corrosion

so drain, poke, remove hoses etc
then back fill with AF if you want, but it is not necessary and the small amount of water everyone worries about will do no harm as long as you really drained it right and did not take short cuts.

 

[platinumedge]

Received new/rebuilt starter from iBoats today; looks to be the correct application, but didn't have time to install and test this evening. I have cleaned and reassembled the fuel system, skipping the high-pressure pump assembly, due to the "cleanliness" of the other fuel components. I did NOT uncover, nor encounter, any oddities, etc., while working on the fuel system. Note that I have still done nothing with the fuel, the fuel tank itself, nor the connecting components yet.

I have a number of items to complete prior to testing the new starter. One item that DID come up was: I wasn't able to turn the engine over with the automotive starter using the key?? It cranked when I shorted the terminals on the slave solenoid. However, my assumption is that this was due to the fact that I did NOT have the EMI installed.

Can anyone tell me which octane fuel to purchase for this engine? I'm just going to buy a couple of gallons to test with.

Scott, you mentioned draining the power steering hose(s). Is this something that needs to be done? What about the fluid in the reservoir? Or did I misinterpret your recommendation?

Cheers,

-- Jeff

 

[Scott Danforth]

87 octane

the water hose that feeds the power steering cooler, or the drain plug on the cooler (depending on your cooler) so the cooler doesnt freeze. the oil in side is fine.

 

[platinumedge]

Understand everything that was provided - thank you kindly!

I put 'er all back together last night (key now turns engine over after installing EMI), but the engine doesn't appear to be sucking any fuel in?? I have a clear fuel line from a gas can to the low-pressure pump so I can see what's happening. The engine is cranking good and some fuel is being sucked up, but not much. Given how clean the components of the fuel system are (that I have seen), does anyone think it's possible that the high-pressure pump is failing? Or could it be the low-pressure pump. It has a circuit breaker on it that I haven't tested yet, but will test in a few minutes.

Also, I found that one of the freeze plugs (port side, middle) was VERY rusted, and had a big sign of rust dripping down to the bottom of the crankcase. Is this a big problem for marine engines? In other words, does the engine typically have to be removed in order to replace a freeze plug?

Much thanks to all!

Cheers,

-- Jeff

 

[platinumedge]

The 20 amp. circuit breaker on the side of the low-pressure fuel pump is fine. When I tried cranking it tonight I can see it pulling fuel, but at a very slow rate. Perhaps that is the way it is supposed to work (being the low-pressure fuel pump!), and maybe it takes a few cycles to fully charge the entire fuel system. As I mentioned, fuel injection systems are not my forte.

Tomorrow I'm planning on pulling the flame arrestor and spraying some starting fluid into the throttle body, while cranking the engine. My hopes are that once the engine starts "running," the fuel pumps (low- & high-pressure) will get fully charged and begin "doing their jobs." I am using the blower during all operations, at this stage. And opening as many curtains of the camper top as I can. My concern is that, with the flame arrestor removed, there could be backfire through the throttle body. However, since such sparks could only ignite the starting fluid I could contain any flames by not spraying any more starting fluid. On the other hand, if the fuel system does its job, and begins delivering fuel to the combustion chambers, and THEN there is a backfire I may have to deploy a fire extinguisher!! Hopefully the engine will start and the fuel system will begin working, as designed.

Please provide input if you think my planned procedure is too dangerous. An alternative would be to pull the low- & high-pressure fuel pumps and test them independently.

Thanks again, guys!

 

[Scott Danforth]

check your anti-siphon valve.

 

[Lou C]

I would not use starting fluid.
take a look at
www.mancavemechanic.com
this guy has vids on how to trouble shoot volvo penta style pumps and your system is probably similar to that.
to prime the system, he has you turn on the ignition (not start) and let the pump power up, like 10 times before it will build enough pressure to start.

 

[alldodge]

Agree, don't use starting fluid

Using a gas can puts the hose higher above the tank. This is not a major issue but does require the pump to lift higher until fuel has filled the filter and hose. There is also air in the fuel rail which also causes some issues, All these can cause issues with the LP pump sucking fuel

Start by filling the fuel filter with gas, then after a few times of turn the key to ON (without starting) press in on the sharder valve to let air escape. Use a rag to catch the gas from the valve. Repeat this a few times until you see gas come out with either no air of very little. Then try to start.

When cranking look at the tachometer to see if it shows about 300 rpm

 

[platinumedge]

I will defer to you guys' knowledge & experience. I think most of us in this discussion are saying/doing the same thing. That is: To get fuel into the high-pressure pump and then into the rails. I was thinking that if I got the engine started with starting fluid that would force fuel through the system.

I'll have to look up the "sharder valve." Presumably it's somewhere on the low-pressure pump??

Scott, if you're referring to the anti-siphon valve on the fuel tank, I'm bypassing that and just putting a fuel hose, from the low-pressure pump, into a gas can. If there is another anti-siphon valve, please advise.

Thanks, Gents!

 

[platinumedge]

I think I know what you're talking about: Schrader Valve. There appear to be two (2): one on the high-pressure pump and one on the front of the starboard fuel rail.

 

[alldodge]

I think I know what you're talking about: Schrader Valve. There appear to be two (2): one on the high-pressure pump and one on the front of the starboard fuel rail.

Yes, the one on the pump is the low pressure side, and the one on the rail is the high. LP pump should be around 8 psi

 

[platinumedge]

Lou C.: Those videos from mancavemechanic are very applicable. I think that is the problem; that the pumps are sucking air, not fuel, and need to be primed.

One of the things he has you do is fill your fuel filter with gas before attaching it, then turn the key on & off 10 times (to run the LP pump for a few seconds each time). (Same thing as AllDodge is suggesting.) I tried this, but for some unknown reason the engine won't turn over from the key anymore??! No click, just the LP pump running. And the cabin lights don't dim either. I cleared all the fuel and fuel vapors out of the area and tried shorting the A & B terminals on the slave solenoid and the engine cranked fine?! I tested the ignition switch and it is fine. I suppose the neutral safety switch could have gone bad while it was sitting the past few days, but that would be an odd coincidence after sitting for several years.

Anyway, I'll probably have to wait until this weekend to trace things down and try again; too much to do at work. (And I was hoping to celebrate something amazing this evening! :blue: )

Best,

-- Jeff

 

[alldodge]

Check you start relay, its on the motor which feeds power to the starter solenoid when the key is turned to start

 

[platinumedge]

Okay, so False Alarm. I guess, in my excitement and haste, I didn't completely insure that the throttle was in neutral. I know - rookie mistake, eh?! So I had a few minutes this evening and that exact thought had come to me last night, so I thought I'd check it out, especially since the starter is new and it was cranking when I shorted the slave solenoid terminals.

Anyway, I'm still not seeing any fuel being pulled into the LP pump, nor is there anything happening when I open the LP Schrader valve. However, the HP Schrader valve does eject a bit of air when I open it, after each time I crank the engine.

So I think I just need to spend some time doing those tasks we talked about earlier: filling the fuel filter with fuel manually, recycling the LP pump 10 times, releasing the pressure until fuel starts to come through. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

I'm contemplating next steps now (optimistically!): I think it's basically: get a boat plug and trailer it to the water, eh? Okay, just kidding. I know there's lots left to do with the steering, the tilt, and the outdrive. I will test the water pump, steering pump, and alternator, first.

I'm still interested in hearing comments about that rusted freeze plug that I mentioned in a previous post: "Also, I found that one of the freeze plugs (port side, middle) was VERY rusted, and had a big sign of rust dripping down to the bottom of the crankcase. Is this a big problem for marine engines? In other words, does the engine typically have to be removed in order to replace a freeze plug?"

Till we talk again...

-- Jeff