1994 Four Winns Horizon 215 5.8L EFI OMC

[platinumedge]

Battery cables are getting extremely hot, particularly the negative one. So, obviously, the starter is drawing a large amount of current. When this happened last night, towards the very end, there were sparks between the positive cable connector and the terminal.

As many of you know, a lot of the lower engine appeared to have been underwater for some time. I will look into buying some new battery cables and installing them. This should provide a cleaner connection to the starter solenoid. Note that the battery and starter/solenoid are brand new. The fact that it is the negative cable that is getting so hot implies that there is potentially a bad connection somewhere along that path. I doubt this would have any bearing, but I did notice that the flywheel (teeth and all) were very rusted. I sprayed some WD-40 on portions of it as it became exposed during my work. Now I'm thinking that maybe the rust has been flaking off and could be causing some interference with the starter gear??

On a side note, when I first got this boat, and pulled all the plugs, and injected oil into all the cylinders, it was very hard to turn by hand. I used a 1/4" socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt, but that required a large amount of torque to turn the crankshaft. Once it started last weekend I figured things were good. But maybe there is a spun main bearing?? I also need to look at the oil again; which I haven't checked since I looked at it weeks ago (and it looked brand new - no bubbling, no water, no contamination).

 

[Horigan]

Typically, high resistance in the cables is due to poor, corroded connections, not failed cables. The negative cable should go directly to the engine block. Before buying new cables, I would clean all the connections. This means sanding the cable lugs and bonding surfaces on the engine block so that both sides are shiny metal. Do the same on the battery side and on the positive cable between the battery and the starter. Then spray with CorrosionX, or the like, to help prevent subsequent corrosion. If the cables are still warm after that, then I would go with new cables. Now, if your boat is like mine, the access to the engine block connection is a major pain, so you may opt to replace the cable while you're in there cleaning the connections.

If the cables show signs of corrosion at the lugs between the lug and the cable wire, then just replace them. You can even measure the resistance of the cable with an ohm meter to determine if they are high resistance.

 

[platinumedge]

I think the (cable overheating) problem is that I was cranking the engine too long, which was causing the battery cables to overheat. The reason for cranking (and I do only crank for 20-25 seconds, but I did that several times in a row) is that I discovered that the fuel pumps are no longer working?? I have run through their whole circuitry but am unable to uncover the problem. All of the circuit breakers are closed and the relay is working properly. I've hooked the LP pump directly to a battery and it spins fine. But now when I turn the key to ON neither of the pumps come to life?? Any recommendations here, please?

P.S. I decided to completely clean out the bilge (and other areas that had much debris) and discovered the two missing freeze plugs!

 

[Scott Danforth]

make sure the feed wire from the start circuit is energizing the fuel pumps until the oil pressure switch comes on line

 

[platinumedge]

Scott, THANK YOU for mentioning that about "the start circuit." I started thinking about the diagnostic work I'd done earlier while trying to get the fuel pump(s) back online, and remembered that I had disconnected the wires from the ignition switch at one point. I pulled the dashboard and found that I had never reconnected the wire to the B terminal! :-( Once I reconnected that, and turned the key to ON, the LP fuel pump engaged.

I'm pretty sure there was some other issue that caused the fuel pump(s) to stop working, and I may have "fixed" it by toying around with each of the circuits and components of the fuel system. Anyway, at least the LP pump is back online. I haven't determined if the HP pump is working yet. I did notice that neither Schrader valve had any pressure after cranking. When I tried to remove the fuel filter a bunch of fuel came out, almost under pressure. Which leads me to believe that something is blocking the fuel system between the LP and HP pumps. I will (carefully) disassemble the fuel injection system again and see if I can find the source of the problem. I know that parts for that MFI system are either hard to find, expensive, or impossible to find. So I'm always very careful when I work on it.

Thanks again, guys!

 

[alldodge]

Don't think its possible because lines are different sizes, but make sure the supply are return lines are not swapped

 

[platinumedge]

I tested both fuel pumps (LP & HP) and they now seem to be working normally. I tried starting the engine again, but to no avail. I decided to pull the plugs again and found HUGE amounts of fuel in the cylinders?! This leads me to believe that the pumps have worked, at some point, but the plugs aren't firing. When I removed the plugs I noticed that most of them had loose ceramic insulators - something I hadn't noticed before; one of them was even cracked.

I'm assuming that the reason the engine is no longer starting is a "spark plug issue" - the fact that the engine hasn't started again, and there is a large amount of fuel left in the combustion chambers. My plan is to replace the plugs and try again.

Any reason to use different plugs? Or any other suggestions to isolate the "fuel flooding" issue?

Thank you, Gentlemen.

 

[alldodge]

Injectors usually are not fired unless the distributor is firing. I would say the ECM is seeing the distributor as firing and as you say, plugs don't appear to be getting the voltage.

Don't know (or remember, 6 pages of comments) which plugs are installed, find champion RS9YC and gap .045

 

[platinumedge]

Quick Question: Is there a difference between automotive spark plugs and marine ones? I've purchased two different types (both cross-referenced to the plugs that were in the engine: Autolite 764), but neither will thread in??

 

[alldodge]

Is there a difference between automotive spark plugs and marine ones?

Yes, but it deals with plating, marine are nickle plated so they don't rust

 

[platinumedge]

Okay, so we're "back in business"!! I replaced all the plugs with the same (Autolite 764), and she started and ran very well. I was able to open the throttle all the way, for short periods of time. I opted to leave both fuel pumps DISENGAGED during this test, i.e., no new fuel was being introduced to the engine. I was amazed at how long the engine ran!? I guess there's a fair amount of fuel in the filter, the pumps, the separator, and the lines. The engine ran smoothly through all RPM's, which tells me that all cylinders are firing. Note that, at the end, the exhaust elbows were just warm to the touch, not hot.

I will run some more tests tomorrow, but need to focus on the tilt/trim mechanism now. I'm not sure if I need to use a special fluid for it, or what? The access point is extremely hard to get to. I plan to purchase some aquarium air pump line (relatively small, clear line) and just use a siphon/gravity technique to get the fluid into the pump. Any suggestions are, of course, welcome.

Happy to back in action! Loved to hear the V-8 purring/roaring (which is probably what my neighbors heard). And I hope that when I hook the fuel pumps back up, this engine will continue to run smoothly.

Thanks, again, Gents!

 

[alldodge]

not sure if I need to use a special fluid for it, or what?

VP recommends ATF

 

[platinumedge]

I will try some ATF. However, the Volvo Penta Manual says to use "DuraPlus Power Trim/Tilt and Steering Fluid"? Because the access point is such a small hole, and hard to get to, I can't really tell how much fluid is in there right now. My understanding (from the manual) is to push the manual release valve (on the side of the reservoir), raise the outdrive, and THEN fill the reservoir. When the outdrive is raised, I believe this allows the fluid to flow into the hydraulic cylinders.

On another note: Is there any reason NOT to try and engage the outdrive/propeller for a very short period?? In other words, next time I start the engine, I wanted to put it in gear to see if the propeller turns (forward and reverse). Any problems with that type of test?

Thank you guys!

 

[alldodge]

Use what your manual says, I'm just finding mine in other manuals

No issue with putting in gear, do it all the time on the hard. Only thing to note, is let the prop stop spinning in neutral before shifting into other direction

 

[platinumedge]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Currently it seems engine will only run with fuel pumps disconnected (after priming fuel system) and throttle 3/4 to full open. In that configuration it runs pretty good; I have some throttle command, but when I throttle down too much it dies. The problem is that it is "consuming" waayyy too much fuel! There is quite a bit of fuel being ejected through the outdrive exhausts. I probably went through 2-3 gallons in 2-3 minutes of running the engine.

My engine manual has almost two dozen tests JUST for the fuel system alone. They include using a VP breakout box, etc. Before I go down that route I wanted to see if anyone has experienced a similar situation. In other words, anyone with a Multi-Port Fuel Injection system that was exhausting raw fuel. Scott?? (Since you have a similar boat/engine.)

As we're entering fall/winter I need to decide whether to pull the engine and move it to my garage (not my first choice); remove the windshield and move the whole boat into my garage (can't figure out how to remove windshield frame just yet; plus, not completely sure it would still fit in my garage); or buy a full boat cover and put in storage until next year. I really don't have any problems working in cold/very cold environments, but certain engine components are much more difficult to work with when they are cold. I also don't have any true deadline, but it would be nice to get things into a "running" state, so I could properly winterize the boat.

Again, I welcome ANY/ALL suggestions, recommendations, criticisms, questions, etc.

Cheers, All!

 

[alldodge]

Your injectors should be turning ON/OFF but thinking they are just staying ON. Get a noid light and place it across a few injectors to see if the light flashes. Also see if the light stays ON with the key just turned ON without the motor running.

If either of these is happening, the the computer is the issue

 

[froggy1150]

Then test #2
there should be a fuse for the injectors or a plug in the harness for injectors. You want to kill power to the injectors but not anything else. First test will tell you if they are firing or commanded on all the time. This 2nd test will tell you if you have a stuck injector. When power is removed engine should die

 

[froggy1150]

Herr is a better way to check. Remove all plugs and force fuel pumps on and if you have a boroscope look in each cylinder and look to see if you have one spraying or see if one cylinder fills up. From what you say it will fill fast. BE SAFE AND HAVE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER

 

[platinumedge]

Thanks, froggy1150! Since I've removed/installed the plugs a half dozen times lately that will be an easier test.

Cheers,

-- Jeff

 

[platinumedge]

Finally getting some time to work on my boat again: I've been reading about situations where injectors are running continuously. One of the "mainstream" recommendations has to do with grounding problems. I can't say for sure that this is MY issue. But, in retrospect, I've only seen my engine idle for a few seconds when I first got it running. After that I discovered the fuel-injection "issue," i.e., some of my injectors appeared to be on all of the time. After pulling the plugs, it "appears" that several of the injectors are running all of the time. (Some plugs were "dry," some were "damp" and some were quite wet.) I plan to explore the fuel system tomorrow.