2006 Four Winns Volvo Penta 5.0gxi-g Hesitation now won't start

dwelleyc1

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Hello All,

Sorry in advance for the long post. I have a 2006 Four Winns Horizon H210 w/ a Volvo Penta GXi-g. I live in the Northeast part of the country, so our boating season is limited at best. There are approximately 200 hours on the engine and its been very lightly used for most of its life due to the fact that I keep it on a small lake and we mostly cruise.

At the end of last season I noticed a hesitation while throttling up and while cruising. It would mostly be a drop or jump of a 100-200 RPM's. I thought I had water in the fuel and mentioned it to my winter service/storage mechanics when I dropped it off for the season. They removed the fuel and put some new fuel in as part of their winterization process, but also found that my fuel pump need to be replaced. I had known that the pumps on these engines were an issue due to the paint chips clogging and there had been a whine from it for the past 5 or 6 years, but the boat had always started and run fine, so I hadn't had it replaced. Anyway, they replaced it during the spring make-ready process. As soon as I got it out on the lake for the first time this summer I noticed that the hesitation and changes in RPM's was still present. It would start/idle just fine, but as soon as I would start to throttle up it would bog down and then come back.

This got progressively worse over the course of 4 or 5 trips out and the last time the boat completely died out while on plane, did not shut off, just lost all power. I brought it to a stop, then took off again and it went right back up, but still have the hesitation issue.

I brought it back to the dock and the following week decided to try and check a few things on my own since all I/O mechanics in the state are booking our 4 - 6 weeks at this point. I pulled a couple plugs and noticed that they were in really rough shape. I went and purchased all new plugs (exact same model that I pulled out) and installed them. I also pulled off the distributor cap to check the connections. They didn't look too bad, but I used some emery cloth to clean up the terminals, cleaned everything back up, and reinstalled w/o messing with the rotor.

Now, when I try to start, the boat cranks like a champ for about 2 seconds, sounds like its firing up, then immediately dies out. It happens exactly like that every single time I try to start it now. I went out to check the low voltage wiring to my ignition coil. There are two plugs that go into it, one has two wires on it (Red/Black, Yellow/Black) and the other has 4 wires on it (Yellow/Black, Black, Yellow, Pink/Green). I used a Fluke DVM, set to DC volts, my negative lead clipped on the battery negative, and tested that I read 12Vdc when connecting the red lead to the battery positive. I then checked both plugs that go into the ignition coil both with the key on and the key off. None of the wires have 12V going to them.

Does anyone know where I might be able to find the detailed wiring schematics for my engine? The operators manual does not have enough detail to trace anything out.

Thanks
 

alldodge

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Howdy
What is the motor serial number?

When ignition is turned ON do you hear 2 beeps?
 

dwelleyc1

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The motor S/N is: 4012193705

Yes, I hear 2 beeps when I turn the key to the ON position as well as the fuel pump operating.
 

dwelleyc1

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I also just went and checked the ignition relay ( I believe that's the one as it has a picture of a spark plug on it. With the key ON, there is 12V to one side of the coil, 0V to the other. There is also 2.5VDC to one of the three aux contacts and a full 12V on the other (the middle postion has no prong receptacle in it). I also swapped the fuel pump and ignition relays to ensure that both would operate the fuel pump and the pump picked up normally with both relays when the key was turned ON.
 

alldodge

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You have the HSV distributor, and those caps can look great but be defective. Many keep a spare on the boat because they can fail without warning. This may not be your issue but I would suggest getting another an install. If motor still will not start, keep it in the box for later

When the ECM energizes the relay it grounds one side of the relay coil. So it will have 12V on both sides until the ECM applies a ground. When ground is applied you will see 0V, but may see your 2.5V, don't know

Swapping the relays was a good test

When the motor is cranking are you seeing around 300 rpm?

I don't have the full GXI wiring, but have this which shows different color wires being used but may help

Click image for larger version  Name:	GXI ignition.jpg Views:	1 Size:	49.7 KB ID:	10887070

Click image for larger version  Name:	Slide2.JPG Views:	1 Size:	83.8 KB ID:	10887071Click image for larger version  Name:	Slide3.JPG Views:	1 Size:	89.3 KB ID:	10887072Click image for larger version  Name:	Slide4.JPG Views:	1 Size:	71.0 KB ID:	10887073
 

dwelleyc1

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Thank you for the information, it looks like I end up at Step 18 in the process, which has me checking the feed into the ignition coil. Oddly enough, my wire colors do not seem to match that diagram though. Regardless, I will have to start making my way back from the circuit.

Would it be safe to assume that from the ignition coil, it would go back through the relay, through the fuse, and up to the key switch?

I am def. getting over 300 rpm when I crank, I thought it was closer to 700 -800 the last time I checked, but I will go double check in a few minutes.

Again, I appreciate the help and any additional feedback is appreciated.
 

alldodge

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Would it be safe to assume that from the ignition coil, it would go back through the relay, through the fuse, and up to the key switch?

Yes

Hey muc if you have some time
 

dwelleyc1

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Ok, so it looks like I was mistaken regarding the 12V to the ignition coil. When I am probing the plug that goes into the coil, it gets 12V right when I turn the key on and for as long as the fuel pump is running, then it goes away. I was under the impression that it should be there at all times when the key is turned on?

In the meantime, I am going to get a new cap and rotor to rule that out.

Regarding RPMs, they are around 300-400, then jump up to 1000 ish when the motor temporarily wants to start, then back down to 0 as it stalls.
 

alldodge

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That is really sounding like a cap issue

Yes, the ECM turns the fuel pump on to prime, then off. When the ECM sees signal from the CPS (rpms showing up) it should turn the injectors and fuel pump back on
 

dwelleyc1

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Ok, new cap & rotor it is. I will try to locate one locally at a parts store and let you know if that solves the issue. Your help is appreciated.
 

muc

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Got a PM from the OP and got confused ---- it's been a long day ------ here is my reply.

Sorry but I can't help much with this. The part number for the Wiring Diagrams Workshop Manual is 7746659. But that part number is obsolete and can't be ordered from Volvo anymore. Dealers are still able to download and view it. But I'm not aware of any website (other then the dealer only Volvo Partner Network) that a consumer can view or purchase. A dealer might be willing to print off the 2 pages that cover your engine. The deal I have with Volvo doesn't allow me to do that for you. Other option is to search the web and maybe someone posted it up somewhere.


Coil A and ICM A are pink/dark green
Coil B and ICM D are yellow/black
Coil c not used
ICM B is yellow
ICM D is black

I posted some info on ignition system testing in this thread, post #41
https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...3-5-0-volvo-penta-gxi-rough-idle-and-knocking

The service bulletin I listed in that post is designed to be used without a scantool. The chart alldodge posted appears to start with OBD so I think it might not be testing some components.
 

alldodge

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The chart alldodge posted appears to start with OBD so I think it might not be testing some components.

Might be right, don't know. It comes from the GXI DP manual and is 469 pages.

Workshop Manual
EFI Diagnostic
4.3GXi-A/B/C/D, 4.3OSi-A/B/C/D
5.0GXi-A/B/C/D, 5.0OSi-A/B/C/D
5.7Gi-A/B/C/D, 5.7GXi-A/B/C/D/E, 5.7OSi-A/B/C, 5.7OSXi-A/B/C
8.1Gi-B/C/D, 8.1GXi-A/B/C, DPX375-B, DPX420-B
 

dwelleyc1

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Thanks for the info Muc, allDodge, and Thalasso. I bought that book from Ebay, even if I get this squared away soon, it will be good to have on hand.

New cap and rotor installed and still get the same exact symptoms. It turns over for about 2 or 3 revolutions, catches, then dies out immediately. I am picking up new plug wires today to rule that out.

I bought a spark checker and will go try that out, but it appears to fire briefly, then just stop. Could it be a sensor shutting things down as soon as it sparks and catches? If so, what types of things are going on at that point?

Keep in mind, this happened after changing plugs, although it was running like crap prior to that. While changing plugs I also removed the serpentine belt and then put it back on after checking if for fraying and damage. I don't believe there is anything related there that would cause me to die out as soon as it fires......

Any additional thoughts?
 

alldodge

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Wonder if its the key switch. Place a voltmeter on the + side of the coil and see if it stays there from key ON, Start, and Die
 

dwelleyc1

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Do you mean on the positive side of the ignition coil? I can try it. When I did that yesterday it was 12V until the fuel pumps shut off while in the ON position, but I did not monitor it while cranking and then OFF again. I can check.
 

alldodge

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Yes at the coil, the MPR should keep power on the coil full time with the key ON or Start
 

dwelleyc1

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Got a PM from the OP and got confused ---- it's been a long day ------ here is my reply.

Sorry but I can't help much with this. The part number for the Wiring Diagrams Workshop Manual is 7746659. But that part number is obsolete and can't be ordered from Volvo anymore. Dealers are still able to download and view it. But I'm not aware of any website (other then the dealer only Volvo Partner Network) that a consumer can view or purchase. A dealer might be willing to print off the 2 pages that cover your engine. The deal I have with Volvo doesn't allow me to do that for you. Other option is to search the web and maybe someone posted it up somewhere.


Coil A and ICM A are pink/dark green
Coil B and ICM D are yellow/black
Coil c not used
ICM B is yellow
ICM D is black

I posted some info on ignition system testing in this thread, post #41
https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...3-5-0-volvo-penta-gxi-rough-idle-and-knocking

The service bulletin I listed in that post is designed to be used without a scantool. The chart alldodge posted appears to start with OBD so I think it might not be testing some components.

I have scoured the web, even parts of the ...dark web....but have struck out trying to locate the service bulletin.I'm going to have to see if I can find a dealer willing to give it to me.
 

dwelleyc1

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I just went out and checked and when I read on the Pink/Green wire going into the ignition coil (point A from Muc's post above), I get 12V when the key is turned on. It goes to 0 after a few seconds at the same time that the fuel pump stops priming. After that, when I turn the key to the START position it goes to 12V, then back to 0 when I release. Meanwhile, the engine turns over and catches briefly, then dies out immediately.

If I hold the key in the START position after the engine dies back out, it starts to crank/whir again like its turning over, but won't catch again like it does when the key is initially put to the START position.

I put a cheap in-line spark tester on cylinder 7 between the plug wire and the spark plug while cranking the engine. During the first turn over, catch, then stall sequence I didn't notice a spark, but if the key was held on after that I could see a weak one. Keep in mind, this is a very cheap unit purchased at Autozone so I'm not sure if its reading correctly or not.

Would a video of the issue be helpful? Maybe I could link a youtube post.....
 
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