1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Thanks Wood - appreciate the kind words.

It's been a lot of effort (and expense) getting it to this point but it's such a morale boost to get this far.
The outer skin should be a LOT less fraught to do, although of course will still be a little tense trying to ensure it gets bonded nicely flush with the rest of the transom.

I think for doing that, I will use some timber pieces across the full width of the transom when clamping, so that once the skin is pressed to the same level as the outer edges left on the hull, it then stops applying further pressure, resulting hopefully in a level transom.

Once that's done, I need to refit the transom cap (not sure how to ensure it's at perfect 90 degrees to keel?), then I can mount the engine and build the splashwell. I suppose I could make that first but difficult to measure everything properly like that without the engine being in situ I think.

 

[Teamster]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

I just saw your thread,....

Nice work!!!!

I know nothing about glass, But I'm gonna follow along,.....

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Thanks - bear in mind I've done this transom job the opposite way to what people normally recommend on here, but I'm still happy to have done it this way I must admit.

Nothing about what I've done was especially difficult or complicated, but the important factors here really are taking your time, planning, plenty of materials, and OVERALLS!

Other stuff I've been doing with the boat in the last week or two include:

Cleaning out the integral fuel tank and fitting new fuel line
Fitting new steering gear
Attaching the refurbished wood panel for the thrrottle
Attached the stainless console handrail
Attaching the throttle/gear controls
Mounting the GPS holder & cutting the console to take the VHF radio
Put more rivets around cap/hull join (not finished yet)
Got lots of kit bought/ordered (Honda BF5A backup with 3 hours on it, aux bracket, new steering, compass, new bilge pump, locker vents, scuppers, transom drain, keel rollers for trailer, fuel gauge and sender


A couple of things I'm not sure about at the moment are the weight distribution on the trailer, and where to mount the GPS receiver/VHF aerial/anchor light.

Re' the trailer, I'm pretty sure that with the engines mounted on the transom, it will make the nose of the trailer lift straight up and have to be held down all the time. So ideally the axle would be moved further back a bit, but I'm unsure about whether it will be possible to budge it.

Re' the antennas and light, one idea is to fit a radar arch like most ribs have got, but I think it would get in the way of fishing and so on.
Might be able to mount these bits to the console but don't know if that's a great idea or if it's high enough etc.

Any thoughts on how those bits should be situated on a console boat like this?

 

[Teamster]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Just looking at the first pics I think you probably be fine on the trailer weight distribution,.....Maybe have the trailer hooked to the tow vehicle when you mount the engine just in case,....

My personal preference with a GPS antenna is to mount it on or very near the bow of the boat so it reacts to changes in direction faster,....If you using the GPS for fishing that will help you follow bottom contours closer,.....

Radar is way outside of my wheelhouse,....I'

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

I'm almost certain the boat will tip bow up with the engine on since I think it was doing that with me climbing in at the stern. I weigh about 105kg and the engine is about 170kg so pretty sure it's going to be an issue. I think the axle is just a bit further forward than it needs to be.
In theory it will unbolt easily and move, but in practise I bet it's rusted up to buggery!

Thanks for the suggestion about the GPS. Not sure the bow would suit well in my case as it'd be tricky to keep the cable nicely tucked away, and might look slightly odd (not too bothered about the latter).
I could mount it on the top edge of the console, or possibly clamp it to the top of the stainless frame around the console maybe. Not sure how it would look though.

Stern mount would be easy just on the side of the boat/gunwhale but I don't know if the engine might interfere so close to the receiver?
In terms of cable routing, the console would be easiest and neatest for the GPS and the radio antenna admittedly.

I don't have radar, but this is what I meant by a radar arch:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-Frame-R...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item230de8c386

Like I say though I think one of those would prove a nuisance when fishing.

 

[Teamster]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

From the pictures is looks like you could move the winch post forward a bit thus moving the boat forward if your worried about weight,...That would be way easier than moving the axle,...

Yeah, That arch looks like it would get in the way,......

I'd probably opt for mounting the GPS puck on the windshield frame for simplicity,.....

Chances are your fishing bigger water and not trying to stay within 1 or 2 feet of a contour,..........

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

All good ideas thanks - I concur.

The trailer suggestion hadn't occurred to me at all I have to admit, and it would be much easier I agree! Thanks for that.

The gps isn't utterly metre critical, it's basically for wreck finding, and the fishfinder is used more when I've reached the co-ordinates to see the wreck), or to assist guiding me home if I get caught in a sudden sea mist.
I think on reflection, mounted on the console for both of them is the way to go since it keeps wiring very very short and easily tidied, and well sheltered from the elements.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

You should have approx. 150 lbs of weight on your tongue. You can take normal bathroom scales and see how much weight you currently have and as Teamster suggests, just move the winch post forward 6" and see what that yields, just as long as the stern is not forward of the bunks to much.

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Cheers - this one has rollers rather than bunks as such at the back end but even more important that it has some overhang as a result since it would be disastrous to go a tiny bit far on pivoting rollers compared with solid bunks.

Can't believe I never thought of looking at the post though. Duh!

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Well I started cleaning up the outer transom skin panel last night since that need to go on next, and so this involved a lot of chiseling away at ply layers still firmly stuck to about 20% of its surface area.

A bit shocked at the fibreglass inner surface of the skin (ie which is bonded against the ply. It is difficult to describe and difficult to photograph adequately but here's a pic anyway:

The photo really doesn't do justice at all to how bad it is.

It's almost not a nice solid layer of glass at all, but sort of like a load of disturbed curled hairs with resin on, almost like maybe a glass version of wire wool or something.
So basically a rubbish surface area to contact the ply, and full of air. No wonder it had mostly delaminated from the ply!!!

So I'll need to grind this flat and add some cloth I think to build back some thickness before bonding it.

The general build quality of this craft is pretty poor from what I've found to date, but my engineer assures me this is par for the course when getting under the surface of almost any sort of small fibreglass craft like this.

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Ok, so I got that all nicely ground to a good glass surface tonight, then sanded the glass on the back of the core in readiness.

Gave it all a thorough clean up with acetone and left it to dry. Then prepared a plan of attack for sticking the skin back on.
Plan to keep the skin flush properly was to use a big wooden beam across the whole transom, which would stop the skin being pushed in further than just flush with the outer edge that used to be part of the same skin.

Mostly this went to plan but unfortunately along the bottom edge, the skin is depressed ever so slightly in from the outer edge.
It's a shame, and it means cosmetically it's going to be quite a bit of work to get that perfectly smooth & flat now, but I'd be lying if I said this worried me as such!

So at the moment, it all looks like this:

Suffice to say a bit messy!!
So close to having a good solid transom again though - it's really exciting that I'll actually be able to stick the engine on soon, and set everything up etc.

So the next job will be to strengthen the join where the panel was cut originally, and to finish repairing the transom cap and bond that back on. Then the engine can go on, unless I want to spend forever making this look super pretty.

I've got gelcoat/flocoat, and the right pigment for my boat, so I might do some basic smoothing, then add some coats of that to tidy it a little before the engine goes on.

In case you're wondering by the way, there are stainless screws in at the bottom where it was not possible to clamp.

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Update - now I have an outer transom skin.

Ho ho ho.

Granted it's a messy one but it could be worse.
I think once I've glassed in around the scar, I will sand the whole surface a bit and add a few layers of fresh gelcoat to tidy it a little, but it's great to have an intact transom, even if it is a messy looking one!

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Incidentally, on a mostly unrelated note, I went to use some of my West Epoxy, and found the pump would not work for the resin can.

Tried several times and no luck so I unscrewed it and found it was full of really thick resin that the spring in the pump could not work against.
I put a metal rod into the can to see what was left as I knew there should be about 2/3 to 3/4 of the can still full, and it seemed very shallow on the rod.
Then I discovered that it could go a lot deeper in the can but that a lot of the content had turned fairly firm.
Looking inside the can I could see a large mass of something that looked a bit like a snowball!!

So I realised something had gone wrong with the epoxy resin in the can. Now this had cost me ?130 for a gallon, hadn't been open long, and had the pumps put on the moment it was opened. I know it hadn't been cold while I had it stored, so I knew I'd done nothing wrong with the 'handling' of it. I emailed West System and got a very helpful and informative reply, as follows:

The problem you describe appears to be due to resin crystallisation rather than to a chemical issue. We have not received any similar complaints and typically manufacture 5 tons of a resin batch at one time and produce several batches a year. However, we always keep a retained sample of every batch made by production and if you can let me know the batch number I will certainly check that there is no problem with it. Although you have stored the resin at the recommended temperature it may have been exposed to lower temperatures sometime in the distribution chain, which could have initiated crystallisation. Fortunately crystallisation is completely reversible and I have copied below the instructions on our website of what to do.

Cold weather storage
WEST SYSTEM materials should be stored above 10?C with the container caps screwed down tightly. Storing epoxy resin in extreme cold may cause crystallization but the formation of crystals does not compromise the resin and the situation can be remedied. Heat water in a pot large enough to hold the epoxy resin container. Remove the lid of the resin container to avoid pressure build-up and place the container in the hot water. Be careful to ensure no water enters the resin container. Stir the epoxy with a clean stick until the liquid regains clarity and all crystals have melted. Remove from the water, replace the lid tightly and invert the container to melt any crystals which may be clinging to the top of the container. If the resin pump has crystallized, pumping warm resin through should dissolve the crystals.

I hope that his will solve your problem but please contact me if you still have any concerns.

Hopefully that might prove useful for someone to refer to in future if the same thing happens to them. Epoxy ain't cheap so I was a bit alarmed when I saw what had happened!

Hats off to West for a genuinely useful response.


Now back to the boat again, one question I have for work that is imminent, is for making a splashwell for my outboard/transom, are there any design considerations I need to factor in other than ensuring the engine and steering gear has plenty of space, and are there any good resources on making one?
I know I can of course easily make up panels to make this and glass them over etc, but if there's features or techniques that are really beneficial to have when making one, now is the time for me to find out!

Thanks!

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Quick skim over with a sander to get rid of runs of resin and blobs of peanut butter etc etc and it looks a little less offensive now at a glance:

Got new keel rollers for the trailer to fit, and new fuel gauge and sender, plus other little bits & bobs.
Will be busy this weekend when I can sneak out without the mrs noticing....

 

[Bumpa53]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Apologies for firing a blank.

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

No problem.

I hope this is all useful info for you.
Currently waiting for more epoxy hardener to finish patching the outer skin join.

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Right, as I say I'm waiting for more epoxy hardener at the moment since I had a close call the other day with the 206 slow hardener and rain!
Given that it's been raining most days for the last couple of months here now (incredible british summer) I don't want that risk again so ordered a kilo of the 205 stuff instead.

For the record - de-crystalising the big can of epoxy was very easy indeed. I got a big stainless pan and filled it with boiling water, then put it on the hob. Dropped some cutlery in so the Epoxy can would not be sitting directly on the heat, then put the resin can in the pan, and left it on a low heat for maybe half an hour. Sure enough after this time, the big 'snowball' had gone, and the viscosity of the resin was nice and runny once more. I let it cool and then tried some, and it set up just fine to my relief.

So the latest thing is that I ground back the join around where the outer skin was re bonded, and have added the first layer of strengthening. This was with Biax cloth and West System epoxy to ensure it's really strong. I know technically this shouldn't really be necessary since it's not a hugely load bearing part of the structure but I have the materials and so I may as well use them & never have to worry.
The second layer I'm adding (once it eventually stops raining here) is going to be carbon since I have some carbon fibre roving that's been sat here for a year or two. Again, I may as well use it since I'm using epoxy for this and the carbon isn't costing my anything. Think it's safe to safe this transom will be strong, although I obviously don't wish to tempt fate...


Just about to order an engine crane next. I know I can borrow a friend's one if need be, but I might need to have the engine on and off the transom a few times to sort out the mounting holes and that sort of thing so I don't want to mess him about.
Unfortunate due to where I live as the delivery cost is anything from ?50 bare minimum, but it'll be a handy thing to have and I'm sure the engine will have to come out of my project car again at some point etc.

Not found anywhere on my honda engine that seems a suitable point for lifting it though. Anyone able to enlighten me?

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Latest update, it's now now soooooo close to the engine going on.

So after the photo above, I've added a few more layers of strength in the scar area. I stuck in a layer of carbon fibre roving since it had been sitting in my garage for a year or two and roving isn't much use for most stuff I want to do with carbon, it also has more biax, and tape - all done with epoxy so we're talking STRONG across this join!

Shot taken with the carbon layer:

Then after finishing these layers and adding a filler layer to bring it to the surface of the skin (eopxy peanut butter with microfibres and cabosil), I got a thick layer of gelcoat on top today:

Now this was part rolled, part brushed on, and it's not that pretty but would pass a 5 yard test more or less. I've added marine filler on the bad bits, which has now set nicely ready to be sanded smooth. The deck drains are filled where necessary and sanded back for the scuppers to be fitted.

I've also filled the holes at the top/rear inside corner of gunwhale/transom so that no water can get in there.

The transom cap has taken a fair bit of work to get sorted as this broke into 3 pieces when prising it off originally, but has been glassed back together and has carbon in to strengthen in a few spots.

Took AGES getting all the solid peanut butter out of it, but it now sits perfectly in place (ignore it not looking straight in the above pic!) and is ready to bond in place once I'm absolutely certain I have got it perfectly level and at the correct height for the outboard bracket to be at the optimum height.

New 2 tonne engine crane should be here in a day or two, so all I need is more gel/flowcoat, and ideally the lifting eye that screws into the flywheel for lifting the engine. I'm led to believe that Mercury ones fit, but difficult to know for absolutely certain which is right and they ain't cheap.

Like I say though, it's soooooo close for the engine to go on now - I'm as excited as a kid waiting for christmas after all this time & effort (and expense!).

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Gel coat doesn't bond all the well to epoxy, it frequently falls of when stressed.

 

[CW180]

Re: 1980s Coastworker 180 transom core replacement questions/advice sought

Thanks - I realise that but I wanted to try for what it's worth since it's purely a cosmetic thing at this stage.

I'd read a few articles stating that gel coat can bond 'reasonably' with west epoxy when prepped correctly, but my rationale was partly that it's only a small area of epoxy and the rest of the transom is existing gelcoat. I'm hoping this will be sufficient to 'assist' the area which is over the epoxy.
The epoxy filler that I made has microfibres mixed in it, so I'm also hopeful that after it was sanded, these may help the bond of the gelcoat.

Didn't really want to use paint to do the transom for a few reasons, so even though this might prove to be something that does not last long term I wanted to at least give it a go and see if it works.