1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Greg_E

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Updated Pictures for Port Side Cylinders and think I know my answer but wanted to see what everyone thinks. I think I may need to mic it first but there are some noticeable marks as shown. I don't have a MIC to measure what is visible but any thoughts are appreciated.

JKB- the heads are not dented and look to be ok from what I can tell.

Greg E-I was able to clean the top of sleeves and I will post pictures. All three port sleeves are flush with the block casting.

Can anyone tell me if the #'s on top of pistons are OEM and if so what would be a recommended replacement for rebuild. The entire rebuild kit including pistons, rings, connecting arms, bearings, seals etc is what I'm interested in purchasing, if available.

View attachment 179452View attachment 179453View attachment 179454View attachment 179455View attachment 179456

OK. Those pictures are better. The block looks Fixable. Your compression numbers in the other cylinders looked pretty good. You will need to replace the bad piston and most likely have that cylinder bored oversize to clean up the damage at a minimum. As I said before, you can fix the problem put it back together and hope for the best, or rebuild the power head and carbs to hopefully have a a more reliable engine. I am in that situation now, and I didn't want to spend a lot of money, so I am doing what I need to to make it run a while longer. To do the job right, I would have had to bore all the cylinders as the cylinders are at the upper limits of the specs. If you spend that much money, then you really should replace all the bearings and all that was more than I wanted to spend on that old motor. You see where I'm going here. You can't go half way.

I would not take your friends advice to put it back together and run it. To do so will probably damage other components to the point you can't rebuild it, and if it let you down the last time out, why would you expect a different result the next time if you don't fix the problem.

The fuel pump with 4 wires has the warning horn circuit. To fully test that, I think you would run premix in the gas, so you don't damage the engine and disconnect the oil supply line to simulate a no oil condition. Grounding the horn, only tells you the horn works, not if the VRO alarm works. If there's an easier way I don't know it.

I would use something more robust than liquid electrical tape. If the wire is in good condition I would wrap it with uncured rubber tape, with electrical tape over it. I'm sorry. I don't know the name of the product, but if you have any electrician friends they will know. It will form into a solid piece of rubber that is waterproof. You need to cover it with electrical tape because it's gooey and will get on everything it touches. Ancor also makes adhesive lined inline butt splices, but you would need to cut the wire to use one. I don't use them unless I absolutely have to.
When you take the flywheel off, check/re -epoxy the magnets. If one comes loose it can damage the stator and timer base.

Complete rebuild kits are available, but you can't order it until you know what you need for pistons.

I've got to stop typing now. My two index fingers are getting sore. LOL.
 

dehydrated

Petty Officer 1st Class
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299
Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

A good Plan would be to bore #5 hone the rest of the cylinders get new rings for all, inspect all bearings, as long as everything is in specs put her back togather. that motor can be bored up to 3.0ltr like i said it has many lives .
 

j_k_bisson

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Messages
1,082
Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I say dingle ball hone job and re-ring it. Clean wiring and run it like you stole it! Anything more throw your money at something newer. Because this thing with suck fuel money from wallet like sailor drinking beer on shore leave!

If you only want it for a coupl of years fix it cheap as possible. If you want a long term boat/motor, look for something else.

Don't get me wrong these are great motors, but you still have not gone thru you electronics and when you start replacing those with this wrok you are at the cost of a newer used motor that is easir on the gas budget.

Sell this one to who every will give you what you want for it. It is a well looked for motor for the speed guys....

MY opinion..... Doesn't make it right.
 

bird33

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Jul 23, 2012
Messages
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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Well, I just ordered my factory service manual to see what I can study to determine what is next. I'm leaning towards rebuild and have a question about boring Port side cylinder. Can I find this OEM piston oversized? I have looked and the OEM seem to be "No longer available". My questions are can I replace with a different type of piston and/or what type of rings etc? Any suggestions? Lets say I get into the motor and other things are broken, what would you suggest for manufacturer of the pistons/rings/bearings etc? OEM Carb kits are on the short list too. Thanks
 

dehydrated

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Messages
299
Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

You can use a different piston wont change a thing, there are lots of places to buy parts for them including right here on iboats check through the online catalog on this forum
 

aerobat

Master Chief Petty Officer
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844
Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

looking at the pictures the engine is generally worn out , and especially on the port side you have some problems in lean burn IMO.

the real way would be a full rebuild with honing the cylinders and putting in new pistons, rings , also rebuilding carbs. but doing it for a 2stroke carbed grandpa ?

i personally would put seafoam in the cylinders and let it soak, then clean the carbs and just put it back again together . you have some compression left and it may run for some more seasons.

you figured out the rattling noise ?
 

Greg_E

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416
Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

If you can get your hands on a bore gauge, you can check the cylinders for wear and roundness. Most of the wear occurs at the top of the cylinder, so if you move each piston to the bottom of its travel, you should be able to get the gauge far enough into the cylinders to get a rough idea of the work ahead of you. Those measurements will determine whether you can just ball hone the cylinder or it needs to be bored. Any cylinder that is deeply scored will need to be bored.
Unrelated to the rebuild, but check the top of the motor for a black tar like substance. When the stators start to go that insulating material will drip out. This is a fairly common problem. The stators aren't cheap, so you want to know what your total rebuild cost will be before you start.
 

daselbee

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Jan 20, 2009
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2,765
Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

looking at the pictures the engine is generally worn out , and especially on the port side you have some problems in lean burn IMO.

the real way would be a full rebuild with honing the cylinders and putting in new pistons, rings , also rebuilding carbs. but doing it for a 2stroke carbed grandpa ?

i personally would put seafoam in the cylinders and let it soak, then clean the carbs and just put it back again together . you have some compression left and it may run for some more seasons.

you figured out the rattling noise ?

There ya go....exactly what I would do. Fix the problem causing the burning, put it back together and run it.
Save the 2k spent to rebuild it for a repower later on.

If you fix the lean or overheat condition causing the PORT scoring, the burned piston will not get any worse, and you have 75 PSI right now, so run it.
 

bird33

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Jul 23, 2012
Messages
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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Well, I just received my factory service manual and reviewing the different sections. I will be ordering the carb kits and checking the thermostats. What are your thoughts/tips for checking thermostats? Also, I want to start working on the alarm horn for function. Any tips for checking are appreciated. I realize that these procedures should have been done before but ASSumed things were working because I had been told the motor had been recently worked on, oh well... now I can get really familiar with the motor and will be excited about learning the motor. Thanks again
 

dehydrated

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

To check the horn simply ground the tan wire to themostat with key on should sound . themostats drop in boiling water should open @ 143 if memory serves me right all that should be in your manual.
 

bird33

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

dehydrated-the tan wire you are referencing is the one on the right? Temp switch tan wire? The controller in the manual is not the same as I have. I am trying to locate the horn to test it to see if it is working too. Thanks

Port-1T-Stat.JPG
 

Greg_E

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

That is the wire he's talking about. When the engine overheats, the thermal switch closes and provides the ground path to sound the horn.
On my 1988 engines the warning horns are clamped to the wiring harnesses behind the gauge cluster. They are black plastic about 1 1/2" in diameter and about 3/4" thick. The two halves of the horn can be unscrewed and the contacts can be burnished with very fine sand paper. I would use something like 800 grit. If it sat for a long time, the contacts don't make a good connection and the horn won't sound or be very weak sounding.
 

bird33

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Greg E, thanks, I will take a look this week and hopefully locate. I don't remember seeing anything as described when I rewired a switch but may have just overlooked.
 

Greg_E

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

If I recall correctly, one of the purple wires from the ignition switch goes directly to one of the spade terminals on the horn. Just follow the purple wire, and you should find it.
You probably have a binnacle style remote control unit that looks nothing like the one shown in the manual. If it has a black plastic cover, black and chrome handle with red rocker switch for trim/tilt. that is what you have. No horn in there. At least not on this or my previous boat which had a 1987 200 HP.
 

bird33

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I have a picture of the controller that you have described. I looked under dash for an alarm horn and cannot locate it. Also, I looked on motor everywhere and did not see anything. Unless it is behind the VRO or starter, I do not have a horn. The purple wire at key switch was running thru the harness to the motor but I didn't locate it at motor base entry. If I don't have an alarm horn, how could I install one under the dash? and should/could the wires at the key switch be used for the alarm horn?

Johnson 200 Controller.JPG
 

Greg_E

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

The alarm horn is not on the engine. You would never hear it.

That tan wire on the over temp sensor goes into the engine harness, and is connected to the other sensor wires (also tan) in the harness. It then goes through the big red plug on the port side and comes out of that cable assembly with the other wires for the gauges and ignition switch. You need to find the tan wire somewhere behind your instrument panel. The purple wire just provides + 12VDC to the horn when the ignition switch is on. The tan wire is the ground path that will cause the horn to sound when there is a fault condition. The horn sound will differ depending on the alarm.
Overheat = solid tone
Low oil level in the oil reservoir =slow beep
VRO pump not getting oil= fast beep
That single tan wire carries all of the alarm signal from the engine to the horn.

There are two purple wires on the ignition switch. One should go to the horn and the other comes from the cable assembly. The stakon connector that has the male and female connectors ( currently connected to the tan wire) should have another purple wire on it going to a three pin plug that also has a a black and gray wire. Not sure what that's for. The tach maybe?

Have you tried grounding the tan wire to see if you can hear the horn? If it works it should be fairly easy to locate.

If someone cut those wires off, you may have to cut back the outer cover on the cable assembly behind the instrument panel to expose the wires your looking for.

If you still can't find those wires you could cut and splice new wires into the engine harness and run them forward. Not the best solution, but it would work. The other option would be to replace the harness, and you probably don't want to do that.
 
Last edited:

bird33

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Greg E, I appreciate the help. I did check the tan wires on temp switch for both heads with the ignition turned to "on" and both sparked with no sound of a horn. I am posting a picture of the wiring for the key switch and obviously it may be hard to see but I tried to get the harness for reference. You can also see where the tan wire has been piggy backed to the blue and a black has just been cut and left to hang. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

Johnson 200 Key Switch-1.jpgJohnson 200 Key Switch-2.jpg
 

Greg_E

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

The color code for the 1987 harness may be slightly different than my 1988. The engine harness also has some differences because the electronics changed in 1988.
My guess is the horn should go between the tan and blue wire. Those two wires have the correct type of connector to mate to the spade terminals on the OEM horn. I can't say for sure, because I don't know where the blue wire goes to. Disconnect the blue wire and see if it has 12V with the key on. Red lead from the meter to blue wire the black lead on the meter to a known good ground point. If that checks OK, for trouble shooting purposed you could use a 12V light bulb to test the overheat circuit. put it between those two female spade connectors on the tan and blue wires. ground the tan wire back at the engine and see if the light comes on.
The black wire is usually on the M terminal of the ignition switch. When the switch is off it grounds the powerpack to kill the spark.
If the switch isn't connected to ground the engine shouldn't turn off unless something is miswired which is a distinct possibility.
I'm not an expert on this stuff, so take it for what it's worth.
When you get this sorted out, you really need to check each of the warning horn inputs, not just the over temp, but that's a good place to start.
Your OEM manual should have the three color wiring diagrams in the back. Engine harness, Remote control and Trim/Tilt.
 

bird33

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Thanks for reply, I have some work to do. Also, I removed the thermostat on the port side just to inspect and it does not look anything like the manual. Is it stock or aftermarket? Should I just order the OEM kit? thanks for your help.

Johnson 200 TSTAT.jpg
 

Greg_E

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Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

That looks like the OEM thermostat but the aftermarket ones probably look the same. The manual probably shows the white one that originally came with the 1987. Notice that on the cone shaped end there are four notches for a special spanner wrench. You will need to improvise to unscrew the two halves. Inside is the vernatherm and spring. the piston on the vernatherm is press outward when heated to its operating temp, lifting it off its seat allowing water to flow through. You have to push the piston back in when it cools. That is what the spring does when it's assembled. You can buy the parts or the whole assembly.
 
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