1994 Four Winns Horizon 215 5.8L EFI OMC

[platinumedge]

froggy1150, thank you for that insightful suggestion. I have not received the new regulator, but went out and bought 6 feet of fuel line and ran it from the vapor line connector to a fuel can (plastic), which is what I've been running off of during this testing period. When I started the low pressure pump and looked at the "new" line, fuel was flowing freely into my fuel can. I then shutdown, gently tapped the body of the fuel reservoir/separator a few times, and ran a new test. Voila! NO fuel was flowing out of the vapor line!

It's kind of late, so I just did a quick run of the engine (with NONE of the pumps running - basically trying to burn whatever fuel was left in the cylinders and reservoir) and she idled well. I did notice several small backfires through the backfire preventer - could see them due to the darkness. I don't know if this is because of excess fuel still sitting around in one of the intake manifolds (a good possibility), or if I have some buildup on some of the intake valves/seats.

In any event, I believe we may have solved my fuel problem. I think it was primarily due to the float valve being stuck open, which allowed fuel from the low pressure pump to be continuously introduced into the upper intake manifold via the fuel vapor line. I think this is a great "learning lesson" for folks may be trying to get a "stagnant" engine running.

I can't wait to get home tomorrow evening and perform a full "run-up" test. I'm expecting to be able to idle normally for 20-30 seconds, then do a couple of throttle-ups. If you guys recommend: I would also engage the transmission and raise/lower the outdrive?? Or is this type of test not encouraged? In other words, as long as I keep the engine/transmission temperatures low (which shouldn't be a problem here in D.C. tomorrow!), is it reasonable to engage the propeller and raise/lower the outdrive at the same time? Or is this just asking for problems?

Another GREAT day for a new boater!!! Thanks SO MUCH to everyone!

Cheers,

-- Jeff H.

 

[alldodge]

Raising and lowering is no issue while running so long as it does not come up above trim limit position.

 

[platinumedge]

Decided to play "hookie" from work today and see how things would go: Not Great. :-(

With all pumps, sensors, regulators and hoses hooked up normally, the engine would only start with at least 3/4 throttle, nothing less. But she ran pretty good/smooth for almost a minute - could throttle up a bit; no blue smoke; no fuel spewing from the outdrive! After it died I tried restarting and noticed fuel leaking out of the spark arrestor; then a backfire; then the engine caught on fire. This happened once before, so I didn't consider a big deal because I ALWAYS have a fire extinguisher nearby. Unfortunately, this time, my fire extinguisher was exhausted - so this actually caused some panic. I had to jump off the boat, run into my house, grab my home extinguisher, run back outside, get up on the boat, and put the fire(s) out! Amazingly, it looks like only a little bit of a rubber housing on the throttle line was burned. I honestly can't understand how more rubber hoses weren't burned?! I guess I'm a fast runner. Ha!

A few hours later I tried testing the vapor line again, like last night, with only the LP pump running. Oddly enough no fuel came out of it, so something else is introducing fuel into the upper intake manifold. The only thing left is the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator (I received the new one today). I realize that both of these could have been introducing fuel into the manifold before. Which kind of explains why it ran for a bit longer today, and didn't spew fuel from the outdrive. (The amount of fuel previously coming from the vapor line was significant.)

The weather will be taking a turn for the worse tonight, so she's all buttoned up for a couple of days. I plan to replace the fuel pressure regulator on Sunday (maybe Saturday if the weather is cooperative) and try another run. I guess I should invest in a few more fire extinguishers, eh?

P.S. Got some much needed cardio in this morning - LOL!

 

[alldodge]

Don't see how there would be excess fuel if the LP pump was not moving fuel. The HP pump draws fuel from the canister and the regulator sends excess fuel back to the canister or the fuel filter (don't know the routing). My guess is the LP was working and your last test shows something clogged up recently

Glad you got the fire out

 

[platinumedge]

AllDodge, as always, thank you for reading and commenting.

To clarify: When I said, "no fuel came out of it," I was referring to the vapor line, from which no "fuel" should actually be coming out of. This was a problem a couple of days ago, where lots of fuel was coming out of the vapor line, and being sent into the intake manifold. That issue was fixed by some tapping on the canister, and getting the float valve to work normally, so it could meter the fuel/vapor as expected.

I was surprised to see fuel coming out of the spark arrestor after fixing the vapor line issue. Obviously fuel is being introduced into the manifold from another source. As far as I can tell, the only thing left is the vacuum line from the pressure regulator. (My regulator {normally} sends fuel back to the canister.)

I received the new regulator and tested it: it's okay. I have NOT tested the existing regulator yet, as it really needs to be removed from the system for proper testing. I hope to do all of this tomorrow (Sat.) morning. But the wife wants to get a Christmas tree and... LOL. Plus, the weather isn't looking good.

Anyway, I plan to replace the fuel pressure regulator and start the engine again, this weekend. Just need to pick up a couple of fire extinguishers first!

Cheers!

 

[Larson220]

I have the same engine in a Larson, and i will tell you that that resevoir tank will not function properly for long. No matter how many times you tap on it, or change the needle valve. Your best bet is to take that fuel line hose that you connected to the vapor port and connect it to your fuel tank. It needs to be done on the top of the tank. Your fuel tank may have a unsed port that you can use. Get the proper fuel fitting, usually brass with NPT thread and connect the fuel line from the resevoir tank vent line to the fitting that you put on the boats fuel tank.
This is the safest recommendation.

 

[Larson220]

You are also doing the right thing by changing the fuel pressure regulator, as mentioned the rubber bladder inside will wear over the years. I belive that you mentioned that you have a service manual, that is a good choice. These engines are very fickle with all the electrical sensors as well as the electrical connectors for all the associated relays and breakers.

Check your electrical connectors on the engine harness. Good connections will provide years of trouble free service.
These are some of my experiences with this engine.
I have owned my boat since 2002, mine is also a 1995 model year.
Good luck.

 

[platinumedge]

Larson220, I think your suggestion, about routing the vent line to the fuel tank, may be my "saving grace." After doing exactly that, and then putting the lines back to their factory connections, I was only able to get my engine to run at 3/4 throttle, or more. Even after replacing the fuel pressure regulator, I was having fuel overflow issues. Since venting the vapor line to my gas can (which I'm using during initial testing), she runs very well! No backfires, no fuel leaks, no excess fuel consumption.

I still can't get her to idle. But, in retrospect, I forgot to plug the vacuum/vapor line. However, I can get the engine to run at low RPM's for a couple of minutes, while throttling up and down a bit.

I now "officially" consider this a boat; and plan to purchase the items needed to get her water-worthy. (And that list is looonnnnggg!!).

I'm probably going to take her to one of the local (Volvo/Penta) mechanics for a thorough "once-over." After that I will need to do some fiberglass/support work to fix the interior flooring. The hull is in good shape. I will also need to do some work on the seat cushions. I'm considering reupholstering them myself. Any comments/recommendations?

Cheers to all who helped!! I can't wait to throttle up on the water! (Probably be a few months, but well worth the wait and the work.)

 

[Lou C]

Is the deck in this boat wood cored (fiberglass over plywood)? If so you may have a BIG job on your hands
For the upholstery, you need a commercial quality sewing machine to do the cushions. You can use the old ones for patterns and may be able to re-use the foam but the plywood bases are probably rotten.

 

[Lou C]

I give you a lot of credit for having patience with that efi system. I would have searched around for a carb intake for the Ford engine and bolted on a Holley 4160 and been done with it! EFI is great when it works, when it doesn't I'd take a carb engine any day.

 

[alldodge]

I'm considering reupholstering them myself. Any comments/recommendations?

That all depends on what you have available to sew vinyl and other items/abilities

 

[platinumedge]

I am definitely a man of patience! :yo: When I spoke with that mechanic a couple of weeks ago I asked him about converting that engine from EFI to a carbureted system. He said it was fairly complicated, but the parts would be quite expensive. That's a lot of why I pushed on. However, after he takes a look at it, he may say I'm better off changing the top end.

The flooring does appear to be fiberglass over plywood. However, there is only ONE small section that needs to be redone. I haven't even pulled the carpet back to see what's going on; it's mainly just soft when you step on it, but still holds your weight. It's right in front of the engine compartment, so I would have access to it from that side.

The seat cushions aren't really in terrible shape: a few punctures and a number of torn/deteriorated seams. Plus, lots of mildew stains that I cannot get out. :-( I've taken the passenger seats out and the plywood bases look to be in fine shape, as does the foam. However I've seen these seats on iBoats for less than $300!! (They're the back-to-back fold-down style.) I would say that all of the vinyl is in decent shape, i.e., can be used as templates for replacements, as needed. I've watched some YouTube videos on reupholstering and it doesn't look too difficult. Plus, this would probably be a great indoor project to work on over the winter.

Cheers Guys!

 

[platinumedge]

No, he merely said it was complicated (or maybe, difficult) to convert. And I believe he said it was expensive to find the necessary parts. When I bring it in I can ask for further clarification.

 

[Lou C]

As long as you can get a marine intake for that Ford 5.8 and a Holley 4bbl 4160, its not really what I'd call complicated. The Ford engine may even have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump and those pumps are still available, and can be bought brand new for like a bit over 100 bucks. Not like EFI parts which are silly expensive. Most of the aftermarket intakes are aluminum they can be used in freshwater, if you are going to use the boat in salt water then you need to find one with a brass lining for the water passages. Or search around for a cast iron one. I bet that an automotive one could be used, might take a while to find it. I was able to find a spare marine cast iron intake for my old 4.3 V6 on ebay, in good shape for like $150.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/marine_carburetors/parts/0-80319-1
this one is calibrated for the Ford 351 (5.8 liter).

 

[alldodge]

With the deck being soft it could turn the boat into a total gut to restore. With wood being wet and if it has a bell fuel tank, this to may need to be replaced if the water has corroded the aluminum to far

 

[Lou C]

Lol. Been there and done it. Maybe I shouldn't post pix of my rebuild from 11 years ago....that was the job that taught me NEVER to buy another old boat....

 

[southkogs]

Re: marine carb vs auto carb

Legally you must use a marine carburator. The only differences are safety and corrosion issues. Marine carbs have special throttle shaft bushings and vent the float bowls back down the venturis. All aimed at preventing gas fumes from developing. Marine carbs also have a more corrosion resistant finish.

They're not the same thing. Some of it is a supply and demand proposition, but mostly that it's an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[Lou C]

The differences are minor technically but very important safety wise. If you compare Holley to Holley auto vs marine there is not a big difference. If you want to see price gouging, look at late model outboard parts, that is gouging. Inboards are still affordable thank goodness.

 

[froggy1150]

Just so you know....... I got my boat from someone I knew and he had hit a whale and tore motor out. Had the floor and mounts fixed. It had been in the water ONCE for testing then trailered for 10 years. When I asked him if the floor was good he told me about the repairs and it just had "1" small soft spot I had to patch. The tards that did the repairs didn't seal the underside of the deck and glassed over a drain that went from the cuddy to the back of the boat. When it rained is sat and seeped under deck. The spot was less than a square foot in the back next to motor. There was standing water all the way to the bow and all was either rot or wet. It won't dry either. I cut the back 2/3rds out just less than a year ago and was doing the front this week and it's still wet and I am in DRY 120+ heat all summer

 

[vasy]

Inboards are affordable in that you can get a reman long block for under $2k, but almost 700 for a carb is insane!

It is. But I see new carbs going for 1/2 that any day. Just search the net as links here cant be posted to some websites.