6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

Tim Frank

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

I can't believe everyone but me and Bubbs are so ho hum about 6,000,000lbs of improperly stored explosives ...
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As gm280 pointed out, this is NOT nitroglycerine, TNT, or something of that ilk.
It is basically M6 propellant....nitrocellulose based, and very stable.

MTBOATGUY could probably give us an introductory course on the stuff.

Bubba's story about the Iowa kids, the 22's, and the dynamite is completely different, though I feel for the kids and their parents.


If there was an "accident" here , the "boom" would probably be surprisingly small, but the resulting fire would be pretty big and difficult to extinguish.

There is a potential for a problem because of the high concentration of this stuff, so the authorities have done their due-diligence and ordered an evacuation....WHICH FULLY 1/2 THE TOWN IGNORED.
Maybe start a thread on that. (My prediction would be that thread would turn south almost instantly and be locked up within 10 posts. :facepalm: )

When they have dispersed the stuff as required to meet proscribed specs and regs, there is a small company that is in deep %$$^ and will be spending lots of $$ in legal fees and fines....and given that criminal charges have been filed, some of their officers may be guests of the State for a term.

This happens all the time, and all over. (not specifically explosives, but with regulated commodities that some company cuts corners in handling, contravenes their regulatory requirements, gets caught, maybe causes a major problem for the local authorities, and ends up getting a legal and punitive 2x4 across the back of their heads.

As JB has said, as wisely as usual, there is no point in overstating the danger just for effect.
Nothing to see here folks.
 

MTboatguy

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

It is unfortunate, when the term explosive is used, all hands on deck, but in reality, most explosives are actually very safe.

Now if someone mentioned 6 million pounds of Chlorine gas, 6 million pounds of THF, or some of the other chemicals that are much more dangerous, then I would have a large amount of concern. THF is much more unstable than most commercial explosives. TNT, Nitro, now those are very dangerous explosives, especially the TNT if it is old!

As I said, I would need to have much more information to formulate an opinion on this particular situation. I suspect, there will be some jail time or at least some very large fines for allowing so much to accumulate. I also suspect the danger to that community was way over stated.

I mentioned the Umatilla Chemical Depot in NE Oregon, which contains the majority of Chemical weapons that have been outlawed since the 20's as well as many other unstable items, and it has been stored there with very few problems.

The press has a way of over stating information in their stories and have since the beginning of time, and the reason they do, is people like us love to talk about it.

I suspect, that based on the couple of pictures posted in this thread, that yes, this stuff was not stored properly and it has not been disposed of properly, but in truth the improper storage has probably contributed to a pretty good neutralization of the materials.
 

jigngrub

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

The media hype is evident in the description of the weight.

Which weighs more, 6,000,000 lbs. or 3,000 tons? They weigh the same.

Which sounds like more? The 6,000,000 lbs. of course.
 

MH Hawker

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

I used to be whats known around the mines as a certified shot fire man and agreed most explosives are very safe to handle and store. But in this case when its all said and done I suspect the company was suposto be destroying them and simply took the money and didn't
 

Bob_VT

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

Me being the "explosives person" here ...... I hold State Licensing and I have a Federal Type 20 Manufacturing License (which essentially means I am licensed to manufacture my own)......

MANY of the older explosives loose their sensitivity over time and become harder to detonate (That's the key word).....

Explosives can be disposed of by two methods - Detonation which requires a primer and burning. When I taught demolitions in the Army (similar to MTboatguy I served 20 years) I taught demolitions and "improvised" explosives to soldiers. At the end of the classes if we did not use all the explosives...... we set them on fire. It was a waste however, it was a somewhat safe disposal as long as you did not breathe in the fumes. There was no detonation ....just a hot fire.

Black powder which is the earliest explosive really does not explode ....... it incurs "Deflagration" which is a violent subsonic mini explosion ......... high explosives (such as dynomite) have a supersonic explosion.

If you would like to find out about all of the proper storage regulations I would strongly suggest reading the latest "Orange Book" (which is the bible of BATFE Regulations) found here http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5400-7.pdf Changes occur to that publication annually.

It is unfortunate, when the term explosive is used, all hands on deck, but in reality, most explosives are actually very safe.
......

I suspect, that based on the couple of pictures posted in this thread, that yes, this stuff was not stored properly and it has not been disposed of properly, but in truth the improper storage has probably contributed to a pretty good neutralization of the materials.
Right on the money!!!!

People are always interested in how to make things explode and I enjoy teaching people how to make a safe subsonic explosive device as found here paper bag explosion - YouTube ;)
 

rockyrude

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

rbh, a ton does indeed equal 2000 pounds. 2000 x 3000 = 6 plus 6 zeros .
 

MTboatguy

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

Depending on how long most of this stuff has been exposed to the elements, I would be surprised if it would burn, the climate down south is quite moist in addition to the rain that falls, I would imagine it might be quite difficult to get it to burn.

When I was stationed in Hawaii, we always had to make sure and store everything properly, which included moisture removal agents to ensure we kept our materials at an optimum humidity level. There are so many unexplained things in this particular situation to actually come to a full conclusion on what would happen. In actuality, I would be more worried about chemical leaching from moisture exposure than I would burning or explosion.

Of course my statements are based upon my assumptions, with out knowing exactly what they were storing, there is no way to really know what is going on. All I see in the couple of pictures is cardboard boxes with explosive designation on the outside, there are a whole bunch of materials in our world that require that designation.

2000 times 3000 = 6000000.
 

rockyrude

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

Indeed, I learned a long time ago that a radioactive isotope (?) is/was used to make coleman lantern mantles. A full case of mantles was required to fly the radioactive logo.
 

jigngrub

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

Depending on how long most of this stuff has been exposed to the elements, I would be surprised if it would burn, the climate down south is quite moist in addition to the rain that falls, I would imagine it might be quite difficult to get it to burn.

Exactly!

A cellulose/wood fiber based propellant exposed to the rain and humidity of Louisiana (read swamp) probably isn't going to be much good for anything.

Since this stuff is a WW II artillery propellant, I would really like to know how long it's just been sitting around until someone noticed it? 40, 50, 60, 70 years?... and nothing ever happened with it over all that time... but all of a sudden there's cause for alarm for a soggy cellulose concoction that used to be an explosive mix when it was new/dry/and under the right detonation conditions.

A Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, or Fukushima this aint!
 

nwcove

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

Hmmm, my bet... Ask 50 average people how many lbs. equals 3,000 tons and you 'll get a blank stare. Sad but true...

...ask 50 average people how many lbs are in a tonne, 30 will answer incorrectly.
 

southkogs

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

...ask 50 average people how many lbs are in a tonne, 30 will answer incorrectly.
... and those 30 probably live north of the border :) I was just starting to keep up with all the math before you threw that curve ball.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

...ask 50 average people how many lbs are in a tonne, 30 will answer incorrectly.

Well a tonne is a metric term for 1000 kilograms or roughly 2204 lbs

A ton in the US is 2000 lbs

Anyone who was taught explosives in the Army was taught the the letter P in the formula was "P for Plenty" so..... with careful extrapolation's...... There be Plenty of stuff stockpiled!! :)
 

nwcove

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Re: 6 MILLION lbs. of explosives???

just a question out of curiosity, but does the u.s. military use metric tonnes as a measure ( not necessarily for explosives) ? you do use meters and kilometers etc??
 
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