Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

[rayodunne]

1970 60hp Triumph Evinrude (60073D)
Tried to adjust my timing based on the the advice in the engine faq. Crank at WOT method. My manual calls for 22DEG and I could not set it to 18DEG because I ran out of thread on the advance stop screw! The markings on the flywheel guard are 20-30Deg. What would cause the timing to be so far out that I can not set it? Thanks!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=228183

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

You say WOT (Wide Open Throttle). Do you actually have the engine running at full throttle while you're attempting to set that full spark advance timing?

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=228183

Thats the one I followed.
Thanks for your reply.

You say WOT (Wide Open Throttle). Do you actually have the engine running at full throttle while you're attempting to set that full spark advance timing?

No I do not. It's in a 200 Gal. Trough which would run out of water real quick if I was to run it above 1000 rpm under load. I follow the instructions in your post in the FAQ.

 

[Randyg123]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Welcome to my world

I have the same issue with my 1975 135HP.

I am told that the flywheel key could be sheered and the flywheel is slipping; the timing pointer may need to be re-set using a special tool per your manual method (if someone messed with it or engine rebuilt); or possibly you have the timing light connected to the wrong wire.


I haven't been able to explore the first two yet on mine.

Good luck

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Welcome to my world

I have the same issue with my 1975 135HP.

I am told that the flywheel key could be sheered and the flywheel is slipping; the timing pointer may need to be re-set using a special tool per your manual method (if someone messed with it or engine rebuilt); or possibly you have the timing light connected to the wrong wire.


I haven't been able to explore the first two yet on mine.

Good luck

Flywheel key is fine.
I see no way on mine of adjusting the timing pointer as is is stamped on the flywheel.
Timing light is on top wire which is as far as I know cyl. 1.

 

[guy74]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

I just used Joe's WOT timing method on my 1989 100XP evinrude yesterday. It worked great. You do realize you do it while cranking the motor with the starter with the trottle wide open and the plugs removed, not with it running? I verified the timing at the lake under WOT right on at 4 degrees higher when running, I set timing at 24 deg cranking to get 28 deg running.

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

I just used Joe's WOT timing method on my 1989 100XP evinrude yesterday. It worked great. You do realize you do it while cranking the motor with the starter with the trottle wide open and the plugs removed, not with it running? I verified the timing at the lake under WOT right on at 4 degrees higher when running, I set timing at 24 deg cranking to get 28 deg running.

Thanks for your reply! I clarified a couple of posts up that I am not running the engine a WOT. I have the plugs removed and was doing it according to the instructions.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Trying to think of anything that might give you a flase reading.... so far, nada..... EXCEPT..... the distributor cap on that model has a outset that that fits into a notch on the crankshaft. If that bakealite outset has been broken off, the engine is out of time and obviously you'll not be able to set the timing.

Standing in back of the engine, facing the spark plugs, number one cylinder would be the top right cylinder...... top starboard cylinder such as:

......1
2.....
......3
4.....

Is this your number 1 cylinder?

 

[Benny1963]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

your timeing pointer should be on manifold or block
there has to be a seperate timeing pointer on your motor look in manual for your for timeing pointer alighment its the same as the 65 and 70 hp three cyl
your pointer may be off get the manual and go thru all of the steps in the timeing pointer alighment and link and sink

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Trying to think of anything that might give you a flase reading.... so far, nada..... EXCEPT..... the distributor cap on that model has a outset that that fits into a notch on the crankshaft. If that bakealite outset has been broken off, the engine is out of time and obviously you'll not be able to set the timing.

Standing in back of the engine, facing the spark plugs, number one cylinder would be the top right cylinder...... top starboard cylinder such as:

......1
2.....
......3
4.....

Is this your number 1 cylinder?

Joe thanks for your response. This motor is 3 cyl. not 4. I just took apart the distributor tonight to make sure points were set right and the base was moving correct. Also checked that the rotor key was ok and not moving on the crankshaft.

I have done the link part of the link & sync which involves the carbs and the throttle cam as you know. When I try to sync the distributor with the carbs it states n my OMC manual the following.

SYNCHRONIZING THE CARBURETOR AND DISTRIBUTION LINKAGE
a. MArk on throttle cam must align with center of cam follower roller just as it makes contact with cam. See figur 4-24 insert.
b.with distributor base and throttle lever at full throttle position against their stops the carburetor throttle shaft must also be against its full throttle stop. Adjust if required b turning throttle cam yoke on throttle control rod.

Because the Advance stop is so far retarded I can gain the adjustment in the throttle control rod to make dist., carb & throttle lever be at their stops at same time. I totally puzzled!

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

your timeing pointer should be on manifold or block
there has to be a seperate timeing pointer on your motor look in manual for your for timeing pointer alighment its the same as the 65 and 70 hp three cyl
your pointer may be off get the manual and go thru all of the steps in the timeing pointer alighment and link and sink

The timing mark is on the flywheel in the form of a straight marking with the letter 'A' beside it and on the flywheel guard there is a set of markings from 20-30 degs. Nothing on maifold or block! Sorry!

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Ray... Sorry about the 4 cyl thing. I knew yours was a 3 cyl but I was wrapped up with a 4 cyl problem at the same time. In your case of course, the cylinders are simply 1,2,3 top to bottom.

Your latest reply/post leaves me lost as to the cure. Never encountered anything like your problem. I assume that the flywheel is original?

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Ray... Sorry about the 4 cyl thing. I knew yours was a 3 cyl but I was wrapped up with a 4 cyl problem at the same time. In your case of course, the cylinders are simply 1,2,3 top to bottom.

Your latest reply/post leaves me lost as to the cure. Never encountered anything like your problem. I assume that the flywheel is original?

Yes the flywheel is original.
After I rebuilt the electrics on this motor and first checked the timing using your method in the FAQ the timing it was at 29.
Would there be any issues with backing my boat into the lake and doing the normal WOT running under load timing check while it is still on the trailer?
I was thinking I could make a longer link from the distributor base to the throttle arm but I really want this motor to be set up stock.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Rebuild the electrics? Did you by any chance replace the timer base assembly or any of its related linkages? If so, what were their part numbers?

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Hey Joe
The only parts replaced under the flywheel were the points. They are 383655. I also replaced the wires from the points to amplifier. I did not replace any linkages just removed them to lube as the whole throttle arm was seized when I got the motor.
Just pondering here! I'm not near the motor right now but could I have wired the points in reverse and could that cause what is happening?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Very unlikely that the points could be wired wrong HOWEVER they could very likely be set wrong. See the following..............

(Point Setting Of Battery Capacitance Discharge)
( Ignition Models - 1968 thru 1972)
(Some have points - Some do not)
(Joe Reeves)

The points must be set to .010 but no wider than .010..... BUT in some instances due to a possible slight inaccurately machined crankshaft lobe or a slight offset of one set of points, a setting slightly less than .010 would be required as follows.

Whether the crankshaft has two or three lobes, when setting the points, check the setting of the points on each individual lobe by rotating the crankshaft by hand.

You may find that setting one set of points to .010 on one lobe, then turning the crankshaft to the next lobe, the gap measures .011 or .012 (too wide). This is where you would need to close that gap down to the required .010. A gap too wide can result in a ignition miss when throttle is applied.

Bottom line, pertaining to the point setting at the various lobe locations____ .010, .010, .009, is okay____ .010, .010, .011 is not!

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

Just set them last night after reading those instructions that you posted in a different thread. I am going to check the timing again when I get home. I had nobody to help me last night.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

One last thought....... Make sure that number1 spark plug wire (top cyl) is screwed into the distributor cap terminals that is marked as number 1.

 

[rayodunne]

Re: Advance timing stop screw ran out of thread!

One last thought....... Make sure that number1 spark plug wire (top cyl) is screwed into the distributor cap terminals that is marked as number 1.

Hey Joe,
Here is a sketch of the way I have it set up. Let me know what you think please!