Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Toad2001

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Here we have a 3 party system, and it doesn't seem to matter too much. The one in power right now and has been as long as I can remember is the one in the middle. Things can be worse if the extreme Federal Democrat is running things...<br /><br />Provincial (State) Governments here can be the run by the more Liberal party, and I hate that. I don't consider myself a democrat.<br /><br />For the 1000'th time. I just wish the republicans had a different leader. :)
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

What are the 3 things you dislike the most about him to make you say that? Just the 3 top things. Be honest. I really want to know.
 

bobingardner

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Hi Ralph,<br /><br />I have to confess that I don't understand those charts. Are those companies losing money? <br /><br />You've given me something to think about but I still share mojokim's concern about how the changing economy will affect working class families .<br /><br />bob
 

bobingardner

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

JB,<br /><br />I can't speak for mojokim and I'm not sure this is what your talking about, but I just bought a new stove and refrigerator from a local company and paid more for it than I would have from a larger out of town store. I felt comfortable with that for 2 reasons. <br /><br />1. I hope to get better service.<br />2. The store employs local workers and pays local taxes.<br /><br />I didn't really need the refrigerator but I could afford it and it matches the stove.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Those charts show you how much, in percentage terms, a stock has increased or decreased in the last year as compared to the Standard & Poors 500 index (the 500 largest publicly owned companies) traded on the Stock Exchange. That is why they both start a 0%.<br /><br />It does not directly tell you anything about the profitability of the stock but a stock usually rises or falls based on the profit it generates.<br /><br />Profits are used by the company in several ways:<br /><br />to invest in its future (capital expenditures, investments, R&D, etc.). <br /><br />Some may be paid back to the company owners (stock holders) in the form of dividends. <br /><br />Some may be used to buy back some of the company's stock on the open market (this reduces the number of shares outstanding and has the effect of increasing the value of each share).<br /><br />Some may be put in the bank as a reserve for a rainy day.<br /><br />The Managers of the company DO NOT get to keep it - It belongs to the stockholders (owners) and the stockholders ONLY.<br /><br />Realignment (change) happens all the time and has for centuries. It is healthy and unstoppable. The worst thing you can do is interfere artificially with the process as that can be catastrophic. It is better to let those closest and most knowledgeable deal with it an unencumbered way.<br /><br />The best thing an individual can do is prepare by making themselves as marketable as possible. I'll also add that many business owners will say the best thing that every happened to them was being fired and therefore being forced to try something else (which worked out better for them and their family).
 

bobingardner

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Sorry Ralph but I'm still confused. I take it they made a profit and being "laid off" is a good thing because it enables a person to go on to better things. I've seen that work both ways in real life. Some people found a talent they didn't know they had, others entered a downward spiral from which they never recovered. I like the idea of being marketable though. Sounds like good advice.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Unfortunately that is life Bob. Nobody owes anybody a job or a living. The managers of the company have a fiduciary (legal) responsibility to the owners (stockholders) to run the company properly which means efficiently and with an eye toward the future. You can't afford to keep employees you don't need just like you can't afford to spend money you don't have for things you don't need for too long without going bankrupt and losing everything.<br /><br />It is like owning a boat in a way. Most people here do what they can to run their boat efficiently and to maximize performance. They don't carry an extra 500lbs of dead weight on board just because it can be done and they keep their engines tuned. Managers of a company are the same way. They are Captains of the ship and do what they can to run it right. In fact, the have a legal responsibility to do so.<br /><br />These particular companies aren't doing a very good job as they are being outperformed by their peers. That means, if they don;t fix their companies, capital will leave and could eventually kill the company putting everybody on the street.<br /><br />In this world, everybody is responsible for their own life. The people who realize that and accept the responsibility tend to do well. Those that don't can get caught short.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Personally, I wish there a bunch more Mellowyellows here, and more Plywoodies, and maybe one or two more JB's (This is an obvious troll :D ) I love you JB (Jiant Brain? Jick Magger? James Mond? Julius Mellon??) Think how much better political banter would be if it were more 50/50! I tell you what, if MY and PW are getting pasted in political discussion, I'll switch sides ;) Sleep well everyone. Sweet dreams :)
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Ralph requested:<br /> <br />
Ok, give me one example.
Off hand, ENRON is your one example. Here's just three of virtually hundreds of documents regarding the relationship.<br />By all means disregard any "hate bush", or democratic political sites. There's ample reliable investigative sources to glean.<br />That is, unless you want to play the eyes wide shut game. :eek: <br /><br /> http://www.citizen.org/documents/EnronTree.pdf <br /><br /> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushlay1.html <br /><br /> http://www.tpj.org/press_releases/enron.html
 

Boomyal

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Originally posted by Ralph:<br />Unfortunately that is life Bob. Nobody owes anybody a job or a living. The managers of the company have a fiduciary (legal) responsibility to the owners (stockholders) to run the company properly which means efficiently and with an eye toward the future. You can't afford to keep employees you don't need just like you can't afford to spend money you don't have for things you don't need for too long without going bankrupt and losing everything.<br /><br />It is like owning a boat in a way. Most people here do what they can to run their boat efficiently and to maximize performance. They don't carry an extra 500lbs of dead weight on board just because it can be done and they keep their engines tuned. Managers of a company are the same way. They are Captains of the ship and do what they can to run it right. In fact, the have a legal responsibility to do so.<br /><br />These particular companies aren't doing a very good job as they are being outperformed by their peers. That means, if they don;t fix their companies, capital will leave and could eventually kill the company putting everybody on the street.<br /><br />In this world, everybody is responsible for their own life. The people who realize that and accept the responsibility tend to do well. Those that don't can get caught short.
But Ralph, that is not the Socialist way. Let's face it. This thread and others related are about socialism vs capitalism. Just the root meaning of liberal vs conservative or to an ever increasing degree, democrat vs republican. Until the public schools start doing what they're supposed to (not likely), you are going to have to increasingly explain the above principles. Unfortunately the concept that someone else is not responsible for you is becoming as foreign a concept as is marraige being between a male and a female.
 

bobingardner

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Hi Ralph,<br /><br />I kind of understand what your saying but is that all there is? Is there no more to being human than fudiciary responsibility? I don't understand how making less of a profit justifies laying off hardworking productive people. How many people will be lost in the changing economic tide? How will it affect us as a society? What will the hidden costs be?<br /><br />In my opinion nobody owes anybody a job or a living but the reason we form into societies and give up a lot of personal freedom is to pool our resources for a common good. The question is to what extent should I care about your well being. That's the part I'm trying to figure out. I think as a society we have a responsiblity to try and provide everyone with an opportunity to earn a living wage. I don't think it's good enough to simply accept that some will fall by the wayside as collteral damage in a global economic war.<br /><br />Anyway thanks for the replies. By the way, do you ever listen to Jay Sevren on 96.9FM? If not you should give it a try. I think you'll find you have a lot in common with him.<br /><br />Good night.
 

bobingardner

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Hi Booymal,<br /><br />I don't see this thread as a discussion of socialism vs capitalism, or liberal vs conservative, or democrat vs republican. I see it as a question of concern for neighbors, friends and family that will be affected by the new global economy. I'm not saying take money from the rich and give it to the lazy. I'm just looking for insight to help me understand what's going on and whether or not I should be concerned about it.
 

JoeW

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Ralph,<br />You are right on the money! (pun intended) <br /><br />The idea that job security is the responsibility of the employer is very outdated. American workers need to learn how make themselves marketable. I don't want to sound insensitive here, but blue collar jobs are becoming riskier by the quarter. They say that for every door that closes, ten doors open up. The problem is that those doors are in a different part of the building, or maybe a different building alltogether. If you don't believe that just visit a site like Monster.com or Dice.com and look at the postings for Software engineers, software architects. CA is so short of medical professionals that my wife is constantly receiving offers of $10,000 in hireing bonuses to work for a different hospital.<br /><br />That's not to say that these jobs are safe either. Basically, anytime you feel yourself not moving forward, or not learning in the job your in, IMHO you're at risk of a layoff. I've been in the Information Processing business for 25 years now. A lot of jobs are being outsourced to India, Russia, China etc. Is it scary? Sure it is, but that's life. <br /><br />Bob said <br />
I think as a society we have a responsiblity to try and provide everyone with an opportunity to earn a living wage.
We do. This country has more colleges and universities per capita than any other nation on earth. The government offers very low, long term student loans to virtually anyone who wants one. But, it's up to us to use them. We need to shed this Idea that we are stuck in a job or career once we go that direction. The opportunities that are opening up require education, and it's never too late to go back to school. At 45 I'm doing it. I graduate in May.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

I don't see this thread as a discussion of socialism vs capitalism, or liberal vs conservative, or democrat vs republican. I'm just looking for insight to help me understand what's going on and whether or not I should be concerned about it. <br />
One would hope you came to the right place for this bobingardner. But don't count on it. You might as well toss a water balloon on them and join in the fun.<br /><br />Once you make the grand comparison it all starts sounding like twittledee or twiddledumb.<br />I don't see much difference between statements like "nuke them all" and "it's in our national interest to control thier oil" to "abortion is freedom to choose" and "SUV's support terrorists".<br />On the left you'll hear, "your President is a liar and a crook". On the right you'll hear "your President is a liar and a crook".<br />Pretty funny stuff when you realize they're both correct. :rolleyes: <br /> <br />When you think you've heard it all. Out of the rabble you hear,"you should show our elected politicians respect and not call them names". :D <br /><br />For sure, this is absolute proof that Democrats and Republicans love government. They like it big. They like it expensive. They like as a big brother or a business partner. They like giving to it and taking from it. <br /><br />A word of advice bobingardner. Once you find yourself trusting politicians, talking and believing their rhetoric. And proudly defending what they are..........your one of them. :eek: <br /><br />Have fun with it all bobingardner....but be careful......they're all around...demo and republicadets.....<br /><br />tisk, tisk, tisk....<br />let me see, somewhere here is... head of Republican National Commitee Gillespie and former Clinton Whitehouse counsel Jack Quinn as business partners??? :rolleyes: <br />Ahhh yes, twiddledee and twiddledum.<br /> http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=1457
 

Toad2001

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Hi Ralph,<br /><br />I wrote out a long winded reply, and edited and re-edited, but I'm afraid I'll start a 250 post string if I submit whats really on my mind.<br /><br />I'd prefer to sit this one out. There are many things that came to mind when I actually thought back as to my long standing rationale as to why I don't particularly like Bush. Its nothing new. I don't trust him for starters. Unfortunately one needs not go any further with a leader once all faith in them is out the window. <br /><br />People have asked: but you are Canadian, what do you care? Well, although it is true I can't vote, it does matter to me a great deal who the leader of the most powerful nation is, for obvious reasons, including what happens to the DOW and Nasdaq everyday.<br /><br />Take Care.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Bob, <br /><br />These changes happen all the time. You are obviously in Gardner, MA. How many old Textile mills are in your town? Lots right? MA used to produce the textiles for the world. We used to produce the shoes for the world too. Guess what? Before we produced them they were being produced in England. When England lost the jobs to us did everybody starve? When we lost them to the South did we starve? When the South lost them did they starve? No. We all changed and did something else. A lot of the old mill building went on to house high tech companies of the future.<br /><br />Change is constant and inevitable. Those that can adapt will survive. Some even prosper. Government can't prevent the change. All it can do is provide a safety net and help with transition assistance. That is what taxes are for. Managers have a responsibility to people who put up the cash to run the business properly. They have an obligation to the employees to ensure the company remains in business. Sometimes they must, "Throw the weak overboard. The strong must survive"<br /><br />What you have to realize is, when managers start running their companies in a sub-optimum way, they risk hurting more people in the long run.<br /><br />To answer your question, I do catch Jay every now and then, but prefer Howie Carr who runs in the same time slot on RKO. <br /><br />Joe CONGRATS!You know the deal.<br /><br />Toad Well, if you change your mind I'd really like to know. I am not even looking to debate them. I am just curious.<br /><br />Skinny, Man you can be condescending. How does it feel to be so smart and have the "truth" market cornered? Why do you even bother engaging us fools? By the way, you must have misunderstaood my question to Bob, or perhaps I just asked the wrong question for your answer?
 

plywoody

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Wow, you guys have way too much free time, I think.<br /><br />As far a liberals vs conservatives, I think JB has it absolutely right. You can't really figure out who is what in real examples, so you have to make up pretend liberals, and pretend conservatives, and talk about them.<br /><br />Like the liberal whiners and outsourcing of jobs. There may well be some, but there are just as many conservatives that feel the same way, while maybe expressing it differently. And we have lots of examples of it, like the imposition of steel tariffs againt the EU (among many others) Everyone wants simple answers to very complex questions, and it simply does not work. And Clinton, by the way, championed the notion of Global trade and things like NAFTA, which many conservatives on this board rail about.<br /><br />China is the new hot button issue...with their cheap labor and cheap imports. But it is simply more complex than that.<br /><br />Just last week I toured a factory outside of Toronto, where they package auto parts for GM for shipment to GM factories in Venezuela and China. The cars built in Venezuela probably end up in North and South American market, but the Chinese factory produces autos directly for the Chinese market.<br /><br />And they make these autos out of Canadian made parts, and they package it with American made plywood (ours), using approximately 13,000 4x8 sheets per month.<br /><br />Now while I don't particularly like taking a little anecdotal evidence and creating some great truth out of it, still world trade is a great thing. <br /><br />And far and away the best part of world trade, and little mentioned, is that countries that are developing economically and growing rarely cause, or want to be a part of, wars.<br /><br />Sure circumstances change, and some jobs disappear due to this trade, but others appear, and helping manage the change is the challenge of our government and our educational system--while there are rarely simple answers that work, still on balance this change is a net good thing, and the emphasis should be put on managing the change, as opposed to stopping it.<br /><br />Clinton understood it, as many other "liberals" do, and many others don't understand it--liberals and conservatives alike.<br /><br />BTW, I had a meeting with a Canadian business executive yesterday, where he agreed that the softwood issue would not be solved before the election--and he asked me whether there was any chance Bush would be reelected--I told him it was a definite possibility, and he just shook his head incredulously...The rest of the world is simply not very impressed with this man.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

Al Qaeda, Saddam, Qadaffi and Kim Jong Il are impressed and that is and that's all that counts in my book. The ROW can pound sand. They "aren't impressed" because he won't kiss their A$$! Wait till he gets re-elected and reciprocity kicks in! And now that all the corruption and bribery is coming out about the oil for food program, wait till governments and UN Leaders start to fall. The former UN head is now implicated through a Panamanian company. Annan and his son are now implicated, Chirac is implicated.... here it comes baby! The world did not stand by us because they were lining their pockets with money intended for hungry people.<br /><br />I think it is time to repeal NAFTA and teach our ungrateful neighbors a lesson. Maybe even erect some boarder barriers and slow traffic down a little. Time to go with 100% inspection of everything moving across the borders.<br /><br />The more FOREIGNERS tell AMERICANS Bush is WRONG, the more they will think he is RIGHT
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

the only constant is change ;) <br />let me pose a question here...<br />if you were going to buy a new TV let's say, and<br />there were 10 Jap. made for $150ea and 1 US made<br />for $250, which one would you buy?
 

mikeandronda

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Re: Are there too many conservatives on this forum?

It would depend on quality MY, and on how full my wallet was :)
 
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