Becoming a spray painter?

[ricohman]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

I have been rereading and digesting this whole thread and have to back up to here.

ricohman first of all you made an incorrect assumption. No where in this topic have I even hinted at using a hardener with any of these paints. As a matter of fact I have referenced 4 paints. Rustoleum, only to be used on the interior and w/o using any hardener. Then on the exterior I mentioned Brightsides or Epifanes monourethane as the choice of which I will most likely use along with a specific color of Perfection. Which I mentioned I wouldn't use or spray because I am not equipt for it. Also with these 2 topcoat paints there would be no way I would spend the money for these paints and then ruin them by adding an unknown/untested product to them. Both of these paints have reccommended thinning and flattening solvents to use with them and at $40.00-50.00 a qt. I will be using their products and reading their MSDS!

Which again brings me to the fact that if these products are that volitile and dangerous then maybe we all shouldn't be allows to use them and I should give up and sell my new paint guns.

I've never shot paint without hardener. Not even on my tractor. I just assumed you would be using hardener as you get a more durable finish.
No offence meant. And I'm sure you will get the results you are hoping for.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

The way I see it is, It's your boat and your life, You're free to do as you see fit with Both. As long as you don't mess with somebody else's life or happiness then do as you wish. We're just here to give advice as we have gleaned it from our life experiences and knowledge gained. I agree with your philosophy and wish you all the luck in the world as you pursue your quest for a good looking painted boat! Even if you Totally SCREW it up, it will be a Great Learning Experience!!!!

 

[ricohman]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

I agree with the above.
But I wish someone would have told the dangers of exposure to iso's back in the 90's when I was painting a lot of vehicles. But I guess the internet has taken care of that now.
I'd like to see some pics of this project as it goes along. And how the finish stands up. And maybe learn a few things.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

OK!

Wood I'm not certain what you meant or how to take your last post but I think we should just let it go.

Now at the same time I don't want anyone to think I don't appreciate the help and advice because I do. Which is why I'm here asking for info from people that have more experience than I do. Yet at the same time I'm also not an idiot. I have read much about it here and elsewhere, along with watching tons of videos. Also just because I have no experience using a spray gun does not equate to having no experience with deadly, toxic or volitile chemicals and the precautions that are needed to go along with using them. At the present time I work daily with Liquid Ammonia and Liquid Nitrogen which if handled improperly can kill you very quickly or cause serious chemical burns.

So both Wood and ricohman, you have both stated that you've used hardeners in your paint but what you haven't said is how you're applying it. Roller or sparay? Also what PPE do you both use when using a hardener?

I know from reading Woods posts that he is a fan of Rusto and the paint that can be bought through TSC along with their hardener. He has even reccommeded it which would be great if I could find a color that I liked but I can't. Which again is the reason I've selected the 2brands and type that I've mentioned. Is it more expensive than Rusto? You bet, way more. Will it do a better job? I honestly do not know but again it has the color I want. I'm hoping I only have to paint it once before I sell it and move on to something else.

Please remember this is a 25 year old tin boat. The finish on it is worn, faded and full of dock rash so anything has to be an improvement! As Wood said, the worst I can do is SCREW it up and have to start over. But I hope not!

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

YD, You sound as if you do not believe or trust what I'm saying it true!

Before I came back into the food industry 5 years ago I worked for a chemical company named Lawter International which produced printing resins and ink bases. 4 of the chems we used on a daily basis required chemical hazmat suites dictated by the EPA and OSHA. 2 of those chems were also required to be stored in a seperate locked room individually. We were also required to have medical respiratory physicals done annually.

So if spray painting enamels and singal part polys is that dangerous then maybe none of us should be doing it! Also if a respirator with the proper cartages and a TYvek suite isn't enough then I guess I should quite while I'm ahead.

Oh I didnt mean it that way lol . I just never seen anyone in a full blow hazmat suit .

Im sure you know how to take every procaution in safety.

I think a full face respo with a tyvek and gloves should be ample safety for what your gonna do.

YD.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Oh I didnt mean it that way lol . I just never seen anyone in a full blow hazmat suit .YD.

Trust me it's not fun when you're sealed up in a Yellow suit with no way out and then you're working next to a chemical reactor that's 110 degrees where you are loading 100-120lb bags and you are also 16' off the floor with a fall harness on also.

So you wont see me in it as I don't own it. Company property of course. We had 2 guys there that refused to do that job because of the suits.

 

[gm280]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

WOW this thread has taken some serious posts now it seems. I'll skip the PPE stuff with my comment because I'm very sure the OP knows what he is talking about...propably better then the average boater on these forums does too. Enough of that...

You talk about a certain type and manufacturer of paint because of the available of color(s) and the cost being around $40 to $50 dollars a quart. Every automotive paint shop will sell you an Acrylic Urethane paint for about that same cost in every color under the sun. It goes on extremely easy (even for absolute beginners), you can get it in either one step finish or base coat clear coat setups. And for the record, automotive paints when dried (cured) will be impervious to grease, fuel, oils and a lot of other chemicals. Lacquer thinner will remove enamels...sometimes very quickly too. But lacquer doesn't even touch AU finishes. Automotive paints have UV inhibitors as well and you can touch up them if or when the time comes from daily battle wounds... Just a serious thought to you for such an easy route to a super finish...even on boats... I, being a total amateur at that time, I painted my first car with it and believe me if I can do it anybody can. Since then I've painted literally 50 or more projects all using AU base coat clear coat system. The neighbors are so amazed with my finishes that they can't believe I did such quality work in a breezeway...not even a garage... I even had total professionals amazed with the finish produces... So I'm just an average guy that can follow directions to the letter and was able to do super quality finishes... here is that first car picture;



And here is my recent OB cowling finish too along with the Johnson Control Box refurbished;

[/ATTACH]

SO it is totally possible...IF you seriously want too!

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

gm, you just had to throw another option into the mix didn't you! I do know that Lund was using PPG paint and still haven't found out what Alumacraft is using.

If I could get a finish half as nice as that car I'd be tickled pink. Now you're gonna get me looking at car colors. D_ _ it!

Well I've got 4 of those metal cabinet doors stripped and primed and ready to practice with that pint of Rusto red. I think I'm going to try on the back of one to roll and tip one door just to compare.

 

[73Chrysler105]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

WOW this thread has taken some serious posts now it seems. I'll skip the PPE stuff with my comment because I'm very sure the OP knows what he is talking about...propably better then the average boater on these forums does too. Enough of that...

You talk about a certain type and manufacturer of paint because of the available of color(s) and the cost being around $40 to $50 dollars a quart. Every automotive paint shop will sell you an Acrylic Urethane paint for about that same cost in every color under the sun. It goes on extremely easy (even for absolute beginners), you can get it in either one step finish or base coat clear coat setups. And for the record, automotive paints when dried (cured) will be impervious to grease, fuel, oils and a lot of other chemicals. Lacquer thinner will remove enamels...sometimes very quickly too. But lacquer doesn't even touch AU finishes. Automotive paints have UV inhibitors as well and you can touch up them if or when the time comes from daily battle wounds... Just a serious thought to you for such an easy route to a super finish...even on boats... I, being a total amateur at that time, I painted my first car with it and believe me if I can do it anybody can. Since then I've painted literally 50 or more projects all using AU base coat clear coat system. The neighbors are so amazed with my finishes that they can't believe I did such quality work in a breezeway...not even a garage... I even had total professionals amazed with the finish produces... So I'm just an average guy that can follow directions to the letter and was able to do super quality finishes... here is that first car picture;

View attachment 201699

And here is my recent OB cowling finish too along with the Johnson Control Box refurbished;

View attachment 201701View attachment 201702[/ATTACH]View attachment 201703

SO it is totally possible...IF you seriously want too!

I agree automotive finishes will do the job here, Rustoleum and Valspar (TSC paint) will also do the job quite well at much less of an expense for a simple color job if using hardner in the Rusto or Valspar. If the color you want is not sold then get some white and some tinting colors and make your own. I once order a Automotive paint color by code. Whoever mixed it did not mix it properly because the color is a 71 Plymouth color Curious Yellow that when sprayed looked like Corvette Yellow, the Curious yellow is supposed to have a tint of neon green in it so I ordered a pint of the green and added it myself and it came out perfect on the next paint job.

 

[gm280]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

gm, you just had to throw another option into the mix didn't you! I do know that Lund was using PPG paint and still haven't found out what Alumacraft is using.

If I could get a finish half as nice as that car I'd be tickled pink. Now you're gonna get me looking at car colors. D_ _ it!

Well I've got 4 of those metal cabinet doors stripped and primed and ready to practice with that pint of Rusto red. I think I'm going to try on the back of one to roll and tip one door just to compare.

bonz_d, honestly I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, or a show-it-all either. I was just letting you know there are a lot of quality paints in your price range that spray beautifully with minimal equipment and knowledge. I guess by now you can predict what type finish I am going to do on my boat refurbishing project I'm currently working on... Automotive paints had stood the test of time for decades and are available to anybody for prices in the $30 to $40 dollar price range for a quart (they can get into the hundreds of dollars if you are looking for exotic colors though). And since one quart does get thinned down with equal amounts of thinner, you end up with half a gallon sprayable finish... And yes my paints a all PPG paints... Shopline base coat clear coats to be exact... And PPG Shopline base coat paints dry to the touch in about 5 to 10 minutes, and 30 minutes for taping. So if you are doing a project in your garage, you don't have to worry so much about trash and bugs getting into it as it dries. A huge plus for the hobbyist guys. Talk with your auto paint shop personal and they will give you more info and ideas how to use their produces, something TSC personal probably don't even know about their paints and applications. The PPG folks will certainly know more about their produces then most anybody on these forums... Again just some suggestions. Either way and whatever type paint or finish YOU decide, do post pictures along the way to show others how you did your project. We all learn from each other that way... Have a wonderful day too...

 

[gm280]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

gm, you just had to throw another option into the mix didn't you! I do know that Lund was using PPG paint and still haven't found out what Alumacraft is using.

If I could get a finish half as nice as that car I'd be tickled pink. Now you're gonna get me looking at car colors. D_ _ it!

Well I've got 4 of those metal cabinet doors stripped and primed and ready to practice with that pint of Rusto red. I think I'm going to try on the back of one to roll and tip one door just to compare.

bonz_d, honestly I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, or a show-it-all either. I was just letting you know there are a lot of
quality paints in your price range that spray beautifully with minimal equipment and knowledge. I guess by now you can predict what type finish I am going to do on my boat refurbishing project I'm currently working on... Automotive paints had stood the test of time for decades and are available to anybody for prices in the $30 to $40 dollar price range for a quart (they can get into the hundreds of dollars if you are looking for exotic colors though). And since one quart does get thinned down with equal amounts of thinner, you end up with half a gallon sprayable finish... And yes my paints are all PPG paints... Shopline base coat clear coats to be exact... And PPG Shopline base coat paints dry to the touch in about 5 to 10 minutes, and 30 minutes for taping. So if you are doing a project in your garage, you don't have to worry so much about trash and bugs getting into it as it dries. A huge plus for the hobbyist guys. Talk with your auto paint shop personal and they will give you more info and ideas how to use their produces, something TSC personal probably don't even know about their paints and applications. The PPG folks will certainly know more about their produces then most anybody on these forums... Again just some suggestions. Either way and whatever type paint or finish YOU decide on, do post pictures along the way to show others how you did your project. We all learn from each other that way... Have a wonderful day too...

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

To everyone that has responded a huge Thank You. I really am enjoying this discussion, learning along the way and getting some great new ideas and suggestions. Woodonglass, Yacht Dr, zool and gm280 I really appreciate your advice and suggestions. zool and gm really helped out while I was looking for that new used compressor and then the spray equipment.

The one thing I would like to bring up for one last time is PPE. I myself have had a lot of training in PPE and saftey in general because of the kind of work I do. I've also realized that many that are reading this may not be as fortunate. Maybe we should have a seperate discussion on this topic even though I know much of what will be said has been posted on these forums already. Maybe offer some easy guildelines of what the amature would need for using the different types or paints and the methods of appling them safely.

I can say that the other day out of interest I did a quick search on youtube and really found nothing that would be of much help to those who are just starting as a hobby and have no knowledge of the dangers they could encounter. Many that come here to this forum are just that, amature hobbiests. Looking to maybe do a one time paint job that they want to look nice and never do it again. Others such as myself that are more involved hobbiests will most likely do the one we have and then move on to another still need advice and need to be aware of the changes in equipment, materials and regulations. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't have known that 2 part poly paint can be very dangerous unless I'd have read the MSDS. Again how many amatures, DIY'ers would read a MSDS or even be aware that there is one!

Back to the fun stuff. This is supposed to be fun isn't it?

Still doesn't look as if I'll be able to get to this any time soon enough. As some of you may know the company I work for had a catastrophic fire back at the end of Jan. and I've been working 6 days a week sense while we're rebuilding. Which hasn't left much time for anything else. So hopefully on Monday I'll be able to spend some me time. Promise there will be pictures for you all to critique. Will even try to show the difference between sprayed and rolled.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Looking forward to your posts ..

Thanks for understanding and expressing the safety issues involved.

That is paramount.

YD.

 

[zool]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Now all u need is some gun time, which is one of the biggest contributors to a nice, even finish.

Next thing you know, you will have a selction of guns not unlike a set of golf clubs. You'll have your standby favorite, but every once in a while you will need to reach for the Billy Baroo:

 

[gm280]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

I too think the PPE is immensely important! But I have to tell you and anybody else reading this thread, every time I went to my local PPG auto paint store, not only did they answer every question I asked but they also mixed the paints and explained every little detail of how to use their paint products and why. They also handed me all the paint specs sheets AND all the MSDS sheets for the products I bought as well. So even a first timer will have the necessary reading/warning material at hand. Whether that person takes the time to read and understand the chemicals being used and how to protect themselves is anybody's guess. But they do hand you that info... And on a lighter issue, my PPG store has a humongous section of books with paint code/colors for every vehicle ever built since...who know when. You can thumb through them and pick the colors that YOU want... They has to be millions of colors... :facepalm:

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

gm280 that's a very good thing to know that PPG is doing that. Maybe the marine paint industry should do the same with all poly paint.

During this discussion and while reading others I've often wondered why more people with tin boats aren't using automotive paints above the waterline.

One of my very 1st jobs out of high school long ago was working for an auto parts store that was also a paint supplier. I never got involved with mixing it. Boy that was long ago! Back then I believe everything was enamals and lacquers.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

gm280 that's a very good thing to know that PPG is doing that. Maybe the marine paint industry should do the same with all poly paint.

I think all paint products would be handled the same way in any given store. MSDS data should be provided on request. Marine paints like Awlgrip or Awlcraft ..or Imron ( which is an auto paint ), Interlux etc. state that they be sold for "professional use ONLY" .. basically that means you should already know how to handle the stuff.

These paints are not sold normally like Rusto or Krylon to the General Public.

During this discussion and while reading others I've often wondered why more people with tin boats aren't using automotive paints above the waterline.

Many of them Do in fact.

Just because its not posted here in the forums does not mean its not being used.

There are a lot of BCCC paints .. or even single stage paints being used.

We just dont see them here ..

YD.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Being an admitted amature that has done a bit of reading I do recall reading the "Professional Use Only" on the Awlgrip web pages and was able to find MSDS for it online easily. Then being smart enough to know I am not ready, prepared or equipt to use that paint. I also remember there are hazards associated with Imron from days spent with ex brother-in-law though I don't recall what it was exactly. Though I don't recall reading any type warning about Perfection on Interlux website.

So is the reason for not seeing it because most amatures here are rolling and not spraying? Again as an amature can the single stage AU auto paints be rolled on? I ask because I do not know, nor have I ever heard of anyone doing it.

As this progresses I'm learning a lot and am getting a better understanding of paints and where I should place my limitations and yes I'm finding this very interesting.

 

[zool]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Most AU auto paints are intended to be atomized for proper film build and adhesion.....Tho some marine paint have leveling agents in them, to assist in roll/tip apps....

But you could try it as an experiment, using a tight roller and quality brush..

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Just thought I'd throw this out there after reading MSDS for spraying Majic hardener.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=12716&p_table=standards

http://www.majicpaints.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/8-0950-tb.pdf