Boat buying blues !!!

[Quit It]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

I agree that as far as YOU'RE concerned, he has committed some breach. As far as what is reality differs from you.

And just to be sure I wasn't way off base, I did a walk in visit today and talked about this topic with my broker that I bought my Sea Ray with in 2010; she was representing me as the buyer. She said absolutely that until I had the survey done, the seller is free to show, test drive, crash, whatever he wants with HIS boat. However once the survey has been completed and accepted, not-accept or negotiate discovered items have been worked out, the current owner is asked NOT to run or show the boat as the engine hours and inspection items have been officially written up.

I know you disagree with that in your view, which is fine, but what I have indicated along with what the others are saying is what is ok, acceptable and how it is done.

Mark

She told you what her companies contract said, or at least what she interprets her companies contract as saying. She didn't tell you that this is the case for any contract, and she didn't tell you that her company would cover you, the seller, in a breach of contract lawsuit. She told something that they do, but it's not gospel to all contracts (and it may not actually be in hers).

You're obviously convinced that there is no legal recourse, duties, obligations or consequences so I give up.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Maybe he had some E15 in his coffee (accidentally), and it is confusing his judgement

 

[jkust]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

This must have happened some time ago. I heard that they don't do much nowadays for less than $10!

It was around 2007ish. It was a huge stack of cash and we still laugh about it.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Dan, Mark, Bubba, Calm down Grasshoppers!

The OP is in Canada, so the foreign laws apply.
And the bottom line is what is in HIS Contract.
If it isn't in the contract and it isn't against the law, it can be done without any consequences.

His week to seal the deal lasts through this weekend so we won't know the outcome until monday.
Chill until then.

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Dan, Mark, Bubba, Calm down Grasshoppers!
His week to seal the deal lasts through this weekend so we won't know the outcome until monday.
Chill until then.

I'm not quite sure why you might have gotten the impression that there may have been any level of anxiety with this thread; at least there has not been a single bit on my part. I actually thought it was quite interesting seeing what folks thought is "right" vs. what may actually be considered completely normal. Seemed like a healthy discussion to me; maybe I was wrong but I'm certainly not excited.

Backtrack to the very beginning and OP was thinking he may have been treated badly/wrongly in the seller showing the boat or maybe the seller is playing a game with him where it all reality that might not be the case.
I also mentioned how deals like this are handled in SoCal which may or not be exactly the same across the country or the world.

I certainly have learned from this that if/when I go to sell my boat it is completely understood and documented the can and can not do so there is not confusion.
Mark

 

[heatz1express]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Not the update I was hoping, but here is an update nevertheless. Survey was going to be today, but with rain in the forecast, has been postponed until tomorrow. Want to be able to say, "She's mine", but not quite there yet.
The "other" prospective buyer that was supposedly coming to see "my" boat ended up a no show! Once he found out that a deposit had already been received by the seller he decided not to bother. Apparently he was prepared to bring his surveyor with him!
I do not think this whole thing was a ploy on the sellers part. I do believe that there is actually another interested party. They just did not know that there had already been a deposit received by the seller. The seller deliberately forgot to mention this bit of info to him. After I pressed the seller on the issue I think he was feeling a bit guilty and told the other guy about the deposit. Once he was aware of it, he decided not to make the two hour plus drive to look at a boat that is most likely already sold to someone else - ME!
I'll update again with any new developments...thanks guys.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

I know your anxious but it's just one more day... I've seen a few people pass away from boating fever but not many. Hang in there!

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

...I'll update again with any new developments....

What a great update. Lookin' like the seller is a straight up guy after all.........

Mark

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Nice update and good news about the other interested party. Perhaps your pressing the issue resolved the matter of other prospective buyers.

Keep in mind that you need to go through the survey results to see if there are any show stoppers or cause for some additional negotiations. So, stay cool, calm and collected. Just remember buying a boat is only ONE of the TWO happiest days of boat ownership.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that your broker made certain that was all part of the signed agreement yes? In that case I would agree with you, if everyone understands and agrees to a set of terms I'm good with it, however when we have an agreement with "surprises" I have a real issue with it and my trust factor for the other party drops to nearly nil.

If the seller had even verbally said, "I intend to keep showing the boat" BEFORE a check was handed over I would agree with you but from all I see in the posts that was not the case. In my part of the world, when a man makes an agreement and writes check as payment for the down stroke it's a done deal unless someone breaks the terms of the agreement. (Non-performance)

Now that we know that there was another buyer prepared to bring his surveyor with him, it would seem that the seller was walking a dangerous line by entertaining other showings while the boat was 'under agreement'. Think of the possible scenarios that could have played out


It is good to see that things seem to be working out . . .

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

.....In my part of the world, .....

Nice to see you wrote that. Hopefully we've(at least I do) got an understanding that different parts of the country/world have different SOP so what might be "wrong" in your area is fine in mine and vice-versa. There is no blanket only one way is right-wrong.

Now that we know that there was another buyer prepared to bring his surveyor with him, it would seem that the seller was walking a dangerous line by entertaining other showings while the boat was 'under agreement'. Think of the possible scenarios that could have played out....

You bring up an interesting point there Ted. While it is perfectly acceptable in my area to show and sea trial a boat to other prospective buyers while waiting for a survey to be performed, I wonder if it is acceptable to have the 2nd interested buyer get his own survey done before the first guys survey is done? This 2nd buyer knows he can not purchase the boat as the first guy has first right of refusal but he may want to already know of any issues so if the first guy does refuse, he's already in position to say 'yes' or 'no' himself.

When I talked with my past broker yesterday and she said the current owner can still do whatever he wants with his boat EXCEPT sell to someone else as the first guy has the first right of refusal, I did not think to ask her specifically if a 2nd prospective buyer could get his own survey done before the first prospective buyer has his survey done. Not that anyone here will really cares but me, I am curious how far you can go with a secondary buyer....at least he in SoCal. I'll have to find out.

Mark

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Yes, presumably the 2nd buyer would have spent money on the surveyor, and probably done so not knowing that he was second in line . . .

The seller would then be in a predicament if the 2nd buyer said "I'll take it !!!" . . . and the seller said, sorry only if my '1st buyer' backs out . . . probably a punch in the face would have been the next thing that happended.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

You bring up an interesting point there Ted. While it is perfectly acceptable in my area to show and sea trial a boat to other prospective buyers while waiting for a survey to be performed, I wonder if it is acceptable to have the 2nd interested buyer get his own survey done before the first guys survey is done? This 2nd buyer knows he can not purchase the boat as the first guy has first right of refusal but he may want to already know of any issues so if the first guy does refuse, he's already in position to say 'yes' or 'no' himself.

When I talked with my past broker yesterday and she said the current owner can still do whatever he wants with his boat EXCEPT sell to someone else as the first guy has the first right of refusal, I did not think to ask her specifically if a 2nd prospective buyer could get his own survey done before the first prospective buyer has his survey done. Not that anyone here will really cares but me, I am curious how far you can go with a secondary buyer....at least he in SoCal. I'll have to find out.

Mark

Also, it would appear that the 2nd buyer did not initially know that he was second in line, because as soon as he found out, he decided not to look at the boat and spend any money getting it surveyed . . .

 

[Monsterbishi]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

I'll update again with any new developments AND PICS...thanks guys.

There, fixed it for you...

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Funny you missed everything else I was saying

Just because I did not include your whole post does not mean I did not read it. Just like in this reply; I actually read the whole post many times even though I did not include everything.

I know some people don't live by the contract / agreement. I do. IF there was no clause saying he was holding my check and was still trying to show the boat the seller and I would have a real problem.

So in that statement you are putting the burden of the verbiage being added on the seller? Why? If you as the buyer would not want him to show it until survey, why should the burden not be on you as the buyer? A seller is trying to sell. If you as the buyer don't want him to still show it, seems like you would take the initiative to put that in the agreement.

Think about it, the seller KNEW he was going to continue showing the boat if he opportunity was there, he SHOULD have been upfront with his plans.

Again, why should the burden be on the seller who's trying to sell? You as the buyer have the burden; at least in my book.


Now you're really aren't going to like or agree with this in any way, shape or form. But I did just finish speaking with my broker and she said that people who are 2nd in line for a boat will normally not want to spend the money for their own survey until the first buyer has completed the deal or not. But there is technically nothing in the rules, at least out here, prohibiting that 2nd buyer even though he's not first in line, from having his own survey done before the first buyers survey has been completed. Might be a waste of money on that 2nd buyers part since he will not know if the deal with the first buyer will go through or not before he gets his shot. That might not seem fair or right but out here, it's still the sellers boat to do whatever he wants with it until the first buyers survey has been completed.

Mark

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Sure, a seller could entertain additional offers during a first buyer's contingency period, so long as the potential buyers are fully aware that they are in 'back-up' offer positions. . . and if a back-up buyer chooses to spend money in evaluating the boat, it is at their risk.

Clearly that was not the case here and the second buyer was initially unaware that he was in a back-up offer position. Once he found out, he chose not to proceed.

So, it would seem that the seller was not being upfront at first.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

op2:

 

[Quit It]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

Sure, a seller could entertain additional offers during a first buyer's contingency period, so long as the potential buyers are fully aware that they are in 'back-up' offer positions. . . and if a back-up buyer chooses to spend money in evaluating the boat, it is at their risk.

I'd disagree there. What if, and it's a big if, the 2nd-in-line-buyers surveyor caused damage? Something simple like cross threading during a compression check, or reversing the wires on a battery check? Tons of stupid things that could go wrong and they could cause harm, legally not physically ( ) to the seller and or 1st-in-line buyer.

Once a contract is signed anything that could lead to a breach should be avoided.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

I'd disagree there. What if, and it's a big if, the 2nd-in-line-buyers surveyor caused damage? Something simple like cross threading during a compression check, or reversing the wires on a battery check? Tons of stupid things that could go wrong and they could cause harm, legally not physically ( ) to the seller and or 1st-in-line buyer.

Once a contract is signed anything that could lead to a breach should be avoided.

I'm not saying it is a good idea to have back-up buyers do anything more than look at the boat, and it seems that the secondary buyer in this case had enough sense to avoid those sorts of complications.

It seems to be a matter of what is sensible versus what is within the rights of ownership. It is sensible (to me) to keep back-up buyers in a holding pattern until the primary buyer has concluded their contingencies. Like you say, contractual performance issues can be avoided that way.

BTW - supposedly the OP was going to have the survey done yesterday . . . wondering if there is any word on that ?

 

[heatz1express]

Re: Boat buying blues !!!

BTW - supposedly the OP was going to have the survey done yesterday . . . wondering if there is any word on that ?[/QUOTE]

UPDATE !!!

Survey was postponed due to weather until Thursday(yesterday) afternoon. I got to the boat early and went over it again with a fine tooth comb (to the best of my ability, I'm a lifelong boater) before the surveyor arrived. Owner(seller) was not present.
Looked so go to me, I was sitting in the boat with a big smile on my face, convinced this was going to be my next boat! I even took down the for sale sign! Clean throughout, engines(7.4's) minty, Bravo drives(not Alphas like we thought) minty, hardly used generator, tons of dry storage space, radar, gps, vhs, auto pilot, stereo, t.v., etc., etc., etc.. Even had her named already!!!

Surveyor wasn't there 15 minutes, when he called me over to say he was finished already? I was sure that he was done so quick because the boat was THAT good! WRONG. (stupid me) through sounding with mallet and using a moisture meter he found large portions of bulkheads and stringers forward of the engines that are rotten. I didn't want to believe him, don't want to believe him and am still in shock! He told me that the only way the boat would be a "deal" is if the seller gives it to me for nothing and if I do most of the work myself.

I have forwarded the survey report to the seller and have indicated that since my wife and I are not prepared to undertake such a project and since, no doubt, he is unwilling to "give" me the boat, the deal has fallen through and to please rip up or return the deposit cheque.

Talk about "Boat Buying Blues"! Now I am definitely singing the blues. Two boat deals gone tits up in the last month, both 20 year old boats over 30 feet. The topper is that I still have not received back the deposit from the first deal gone sour and I am nervous about the prospect of having trouble getting the second one back. Not to mention being out several hundred for two surveys plus time off work and travel costs. WHAT A DRAG !