creation science vs. evolution

[ebbtide176]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

hava gooden SBN <br /><br />here's what this thread brings to mind for me: a good ole story of a leap of faith.<br /><br />it could very well be evolution or creation-<br /><br />there is a Santa Claus.<br /><br />He exists as certainly as love and generosity and<br />devotion exist, and you know that they abound and<br />give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas!<br />how dreary would be the world if there were no<br />Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there<br />were no children. There would be no childlike<br />faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable<br />this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except<br />in sense and sight. The external light with which<br />childhood fills the world would be extinguished.<br /><br />Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not<br />believe in fairies. You might get your papa to<br />hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas<br />eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not<br />see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove?<br />Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that<br />there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in<br />the world are those that neither children nor men<br />can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the<br />lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they<br />are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all<br />the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.<br /><br />You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes<br />the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the<br />unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even<br />the united strength of all the strongest men that<br />ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love,<br />romance, can push aside that curtain and view and<br />picture the supernatural beauty and glory beyond. Is<br />it all real? Ah, yes, in all this world there is<br />nothing else real and abiding.<br /><br />No Santa Claus? Thank God he lives and lives forever.<br />A thousand years from now, nay 10 times<br />10,000 years from now, he will continue to make<br />glad the heart of childhood.<br /><br /> keep the faith

 

[Bassy]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

I see where this thread is headed, but had to add my two cents as a science teacher. Evolution is 7th grade curriculum. My job is to teach the theory, not to influence any way of believing. State standards require 7th grade students to master the knowledge of this theory. It's important to their future just as Mathematics and Language Arts are. Personally, I will not go down the road of who made earth. That's the parents and church's place. But I know of other teachers that have gone down that road. Scarey road! <br />Bassy

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

just wanted to thank everyone for their opinions<br />on this difficult subject. with over 100 posts,<br />I still have not gotten the answer wether anyone<br />has a school district that teaches creation as<br />a science or if their school boards are facing<br />pressure to do so.<br />thank you SCO as the only other voice of reason<br />here, looks like we are pretty much on our own<br />re: real science behind evolution.<br />I would also like to agree with ebb re: scientists<br />coming to the conclusion after many years of study<br />that there must have been some higher power in the<br />mix somewhere along the way. I have found the same<br />in my dealings with prominent scientists.<br />I guess i am the only one who doesn't have to make<br />these 2 things mutually exclusive of each other.<br />aspek has come somewhat close to this <br /><br />the thing that really bothers me here is that a<br />sect can use it's muscle to put undue influence<br />on our public schools and have them change their<br />cirriculum to suit their beliefs. the fact that<br />many of us share the same christian beliefs deff.<br />clouds this serious/scary situiation. ask yourself<br />how you would have replied to this thread if it<br />wasn't bible based? oh how religion can cloud our<br />judgement...<br /><br />in any event, it was a spirited and mostly well<br />mannered debate. mod2 helped keep it on track.<br />kind regards,<br />M.Y.

 

[Bigfun]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

People of faith have legitimate concerns with the way science is taught in many public schools. Evolution is used by many teachers as a way to prove that creationism is silly. If just the facts about evolution are taught, there would be no problem. Unfortunatly most teachers are of the left politicaly, and the left has a religion that they worship called liberalism. The only solution is to give parents that have small incomes a choice in were they send their kids. The left will never agree to release control over your kids in public school, it's their greatest recruiting tool.

 

[Bigfun]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

MY, to answer your ? no. My experiance with my kids, 8 yrs. in private Lutheran school, 3 yrs. so far in public high., is science is taught the same way it was taught to me. The problem of evolution/creation comes to a head when the teacher has an agenda other than teaching the facts. It's interesting that your 2nd. to last paragraph whould be much more factually accurate if you substituted the word liberalism with sect.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Answering your original question MY, yes, its ludicrous.<br /><br />Religion has no place is public schools.<br />As far as teaching evolution and science vs. creation/science, lets not confuse the minds of the young. Curriculum needs to stay on track, and not sway. This needs to be mandated by the school board. Go to a private school, or church to receive this info...<br /><br />I have no issue with those who practice religion, and am in fact personally neutral when it comes to it. I don't preach either way.<br /><br />Consider this though:<br />Why is it that when (most people) get really sick or have an accident, you turn to medical experts who have been educated by conventional science for treatment, as opposed to simply turning to god and praying for swift healing or better results than those offered by medical science? (lets ignore those phony evangelist TV shows for this example)<br /><br />I am not suggesting one shuts off the spiritual thought process. But I keep an open mind to the logistics of creation "science". 500 or so years ago everyone thought the earth was flat. Now that was ludicrous. Contrary to popular belief, the sun didn't revolve around the Earth either...I wouldn't accept anything written 600 years ago word for word let alone 1900 years ago...<br /><br />Hopefully I haven't pis$ed anyone off this time...

 

[FLATHEAD]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Toad, on the other hand I work with an agnostic guy. When his kid got real sick he was praying to god to help pull the kid through. Funny aint it. Pretty deep subject here. I agree that religion should not be taught in the public schools. Which religion would you teach? Thats what the churches are for. I have no problem with prayer in school though, because you can choose not to do it.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Religion in moderation can be a good thing. It certainly can't hurt.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

snapper- amazing how no one has answered your question, isn't it?

 

[18rabbit]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

It's Saturday...I'm gonna ramble a little before heading down to the boatyard. Should answer Snapper's question, too.<br /><br />

My job is to teach the theory, not to influence any way of believing.

The “theory” can be taught to 7th graders in a single session. Anything beyond that is brainwashing and is exactly what has gotten us to the point we are at now.<br /><br />Repeat something often enough and people start to accept it as the truth, whether it is or not. Not only do your actions influence a specific way of thinking, I suspect they were probably done in such a way as to quality as brainwashing, if the curriculum you taught is anything like the curriculum in my kids schools.<br /><br />Did you ever have a student tell you “gosh Mr. Bassy, thanks for the lesson, but since there is no scientific support for this theory you just taught us, I think I will reserve judgment on its validity?”<br /><br />Parents that choose to raise their children in an environment of religion must put effort into un-brainwashing (or re-brainwashing ) their children after being subjected to the theory of evolution as if it was fact.<br /><br />Arguably, the theory of evolution is a religion. It is solely faith based. I agree with the argument that to teach only the theory of evolution is to teach a gov’t-sponsored religion.<br /><br />Here are 6 (of a gazillion) questions. Can you answer all the questions the same, either all ‘yes’ or all ‘no’?<br /><br />1.Christianity is solely faith based. Is it ok to require the teaching of Christianity to all students to a level that they “master the knowledge of this theory?”<br /><br />2.Evolution is solely faith based. Is it ok to require the teaching of Evolution to all students to a level that they “master the knowledge of this theory?”<br /><br />3.Islam is solely faith based. Is it ok to require the teaching of Islam to all students to a level that they “master the knowledge of this theory?”<br /><br />4.Judaism is solely faith based. Is it ok to require the teaching of Judaism to all students to a level that they “master the knowledge of this theory?”<br /><br />5.Satanism is solely faith based. Is it ok to require the teaching of Satanism to all students to a level that they “master the knowledge of this theory?”<br /><br />6.Voodoo is solely faith based. Is it ok to require the teaching of Voodoo to all students to a level that they “master the knowledge of this theory?”<br /><br />As I stated in my first post to this thread: it is less about what you “believe” and more about what you choose to ignore.<br /><br />If you answered all the questions the same way, you should be actively involved in defining the curriculum for the schools in your area. You do not have to have children in any of the schools; only an interest in the quality of public education.<br /><br />In California, all the schools want money. The state has money to give in the form of what is called Site Improvement Funds. It is the money paid to a school for the children’s attendance. The law requires a School Site Council be established in order to qualify for those funds. The law requires 50% of the Council must be parents and/or community leaders. That is YOU! The law requires the School Site Council to define the curriculum. A District does not have the authority to define curriculum when a School Site Council is in place.<br /><br />California’s public schools are in the toilet…and that presumes everything is going well. There is virtually no involvement of parents in the School Site Council for any school, and there is virtually no end to the complaining from parents that have actively chosen to allow the dumbing-down of their children.<br /><br />I alone decided that 600 children would be required to wear uniforms to school. I alone decided what that uniform would be, what colors, and how it would be worn. I alone decided what clothing would cause a child to be removed from class. I achieved this solely on the apathy of parents that have a vested interest.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

no scientific support??? I give up <br /><br />ready to have this thread locked Admins before<br />it becomes a further excercise if futility.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

The theory of evolution would have you/me believe one species of animal was able to change into a whole new species of critter…like T-rex eventually became a hummingbird (not the fishfinder ).<br /><br />I am open to it! I want to believe it…I really do. What scientific support for evolution is there that is not pure faith?

 

[eurolarva]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

So if man evolved from ape why are there still apes. The pyrimids outdate man and if so who built them. Where are the tools they used to build them. Is it possible that the people that built them knew a meteor was going to hit and left the planet? Could God just be an advanced species that planted us on this planet to see what would happen? How come some days I can catch bass on beetle spins but they wont take a night crawler.

 

[Groot Brak]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Fun is always fun! How I enjoy your American beliefs in yourselfs! American theories tend to become true over time, just take the big bang. Pop, and you have a world! Billions was spend to prove the big bang, so you think they will say, "Mr President, we spend 10billion, and we were wrong." No chance in hell. But the truth is that more observations was against the big bang, than for it. But alas, those "incorrect observations" will have to be re-observed, but is will never happen. Or if there is a fuss about it, new theories were brought out. Its a big circus act out there.<br /><br />The grand canyon could not be millions of years old. You carve a river out with water, slowly over millions of years, and the canyon will be U-shaped. You carve it over soft mud quickly, you get a V-shape canyon. Guess what, grand canyon is V-shaped. Go and check it out, you will be surprised. Just check some flood damage over soft ground, and you will notice a V-shape.<br /><br />How did the sun form? High school science teach us if you compress a gas, it gets hot. If you heat a gas it tend to expand. The sun was formed by hydrogen, which in turn was attracted by gravity to each other to form a "ball." (Funny, you let loose a gas inside a vacuum and it disperses evenly over the vacuum...) but non-the less. While the hydrogen heats up, it should have expanded again since there was no external "compressor" to force it together so it can clot to form a sun.<br /><br />All dinosaur and human artifacts found together was labeleed as "intrusive burials." I.e. mankind buried it millions of years after the dinosour died. Was'nt the dinosours rocks by then. Would take a very determined cave man to dig into rock to bury his spear tip inside fossilised ribs.<br /><br />BTW. The flood was true. Most dinosour tracks found were running in an uphill direction. Why would they be running/moving uphill most of the time?

 

[SCO]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Maybe faith isnt about believing in a literal interpetation, or evolution, but about realizing the mechanics of it all are beyond us humans. Pretty good discussion. <br /><br />Groot, only have time to answer one, the compressor factor is gravity. Takes a lot of mass for it to work. Once it burns out it will collapse and supernova maybe. The burning does keep it expanded.<br />Sianara.

 

[Bassy]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

California’s public schools are in the toilet…and that presumes everything is going well. There is virtually no involvement of parents in the School Site Council for any school, and there is virtually no end to the complaining from parents that have actively chosen to allow the dumbing-down of their children.<br />

You're right there. Its really sad, but don't blame the teachers. They are working harder than any teacher before them. Teaching what the state tells them and having to attach state standards to each lesson they teach. 5 standards need to be mastered for Evolution alone. . Not easily done in one day( session). Nice try 18rabbit. No freedom and creativity anymore. Very sad! Its really no fun for the teacher or the student. <br />Bassy( Mr. Bassy is my husband)

 

[18rabbit]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

5 standards need to be mastered for Evolution alone

What are the 5 standards?<br /><br />EDIT: Hey..Mrs. Bassy! 116 postings later and we might have finally gotten this thread onto the right track. I’m sure MY will let us know…

 

[Bassy]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Here are the Content Standards for 7th grade Science in California.<br />reference: http://www.cde.ca.gov/standards/ <br />Evolution:<br /> Biological evolution accounts for the diversity of species developed through gradual processes over many generations. As a basis for understanding this concept:<br />a. Students know genetic variation and environmental factors are causes of evolution and diversity of organisms.<br />b. Students know the reasoning used by Charles Darwin in reaching his conclusion that natural selection is the mechanism of evolution.<br />c. Students know how independent lines of evidence from geneology, fossils, and comparative anatomy provide the bases for the theory of evolution.<br />d. Students know how to construct a simple branching diagram to classify living groups of organisms by shared derived characteristics and how to expand the diagram to include fossil organisms.<br />e. Students know that extinction of a species occurs when the environment changes and the adaptive charcteristics of a species are insufficient for its survival. <br />Nothing here about creation. <br />Maestra Bassy

 

[snapperbait]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

I understand what you are saying Ebb, 100%, and I realize we will probably never have enuff real hard facts either way we go.. Whatever gets it done for ya man, i ain't gonna try an change ya.. More important stuff goin on in the world anywhooo...<br /><br />Did a couple searches under "creation science" , no thanks to ya'll , and spent some of the evening reading mostly about the theory of creation.. Really trying to look at it without bias..(was hard) <br /><br /> Did'nt find much in the form of actual hard tangible scientific evidence to support creation... Found some totally outlandish stuff, some flat out hatered about evolution, and some not so rediculous scientific "arguements" which have real merrit, but the great majority of it was what i'd consider the "us (creation) vs. them (evolution)"..... Mostly just trying to de-bunk evolution, which is a good thing in actuallity.. Keeps the scientific method like checks and balances..<br /><br />Nite All...

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

the grand canyon was carved through granite and<br />shale groot, not soft topsoil