creation science vs. evolution

kd6nem

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Mello,<br />You seem confident in your science. You seem to have great faith in it, in fact. Tell me how many transitional forms you've found. Not sporadic incomplete examples, but showing the ENTIRE transition. They are simply not there. In fact the movement in science is away from gradual evolution because it cannot be supported with any hard evidence not requiring mathmatical manipulation (like carbon or isotope dating)or great amounts of imagination. Scientific theory dictates that that something be observable and reproduceable for it to be considered fact. There were no witnesses and even Sidney Fox's experiments demonstrated that any atmosphere which could perhaps allow the formation of nucleic acids randomly would also destroy any protein actually formed. The thought amongst the cutting edge crowd is that it must have been modulated somehow- sporadic. But no one has any real explanation for any such mechanism. Bottom line is that the closer you look both explanations require faith. Many prefer to not look close enough to have to choose, because if the question "how did we get here?" gets answered we have to crawl off the fence and decide where to stand. The notion that God might have used evolution does not ultimately float because reasonable hermaneutics require something which pretty closely resembles a literal 6 days of creation. I realize that this gets debated, but these theories which attempt to harmonize faith with evolution were started as attempts to appease what was perceived to be sound science in the 1800's. Much of what was then thought to be sound science then has been discarded and replaced or at least severely modified, as will be the current set of scientific theories of origin. Why do the dates of the big bang keep getting revised? Or of the timeline of life beginning? Because flaws in the science as revealed by new evidence exclude the previous dates, so adding another hundred million years becomes the standard answer to each new discovery. Still fails to really answer the questions. This will never be conclusively proven either way scientifically for any of us who stand on this earth. But to state that there is overwhelming evidence for evolution fails to acknowledge that what all the hot "evidences" were 20 years ago have been pretty much dismissed for newer ones. There are plenty of ardent evolutionary PhD's who acknowledge this. Funny, from where I stand I see overwhelming evidence of Creation. Keep on looking. Look closer. Look close enough and you may switch over like I did.<br /><br />I say teach both as theory in schools, since neither can be scientifically established as fact.
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: creation science vs. evolution

The problem with the Catholic church? (No disrespect to Catholics). They basicly have thrown out the bible, They do not think it is the inherant word of God and make up rules as they go along! OK, Now Im in trouble! :eek: Its kinda like not using the instruction sheet with your new bar BQ, and you wonder why you have nuts left over!
 

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
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May 29, 2003
Messages
19,300
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Oh, and MY, you are right about the time frame. There is a scripture that says that a day is as a 1000 years(a very long time). Does that mean that the Biblical account of creation was 6 literal days, 6000 years, or 6 very long time periods? I don't know for sure, but it is one of the questions I may want to ask Him, if I am not so overwhelmed by His presence that I forget, when I get to meet my Creator face to face.<br /><br />Oh, and I wish I knew everything, unfortunately I have so many questions. The more I learn, the more quyestions I have and the more I realize I do not know!
 

rolmops

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
5,551
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Mikeandronda<br />I did not say that you are arrogant because you believe.I said that it is arrogance to pretend to understand even an inkling of what the creator is all about.Whereby I try to say that those that claim there is only one explanation for things like creation really are trying to make the G-d being a lot smaller than he really is,just so they can grasp these concepts.This instead of accepting that we understand little or nothing.
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: creation science vs. evolution

WRT entropy, if the earth is heated by the sun, jostled by wind and wave and lightening, there will always be random organizations that occur, like flipping a coin a million times, you're going to get long strings of heads or tails or head tail head tail...statistically. I cant cite but recall experiments where electricity to simulate lightening, water(saltwater I bet), and hydrogen, carbon, all jumbled in a beaker would produce simple amino acids. The energy can drive chemical reactions to states of greater organization. Physics isnt violated, sun will eventually die but as it burns we are able to swim upstream against entropy.
 

mikeandronda

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
1,888
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Right on Bearcat you have said what I could not.......and Aspeck great point it aint gonna matter when the time come to look upon God.<br />Oh mellowyellow they didnt seem to scared. :p
 

mikeandronda

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
1,888
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Ok Rolmops your right to put God in a box is arogant but I believe with my heart God (or rather the Holy Spirit)inpired the authors of the bible so as to relay his word( instruction manual) to all of us. So I have to believe it was writen as it was because its the truth.Nothing I know of has ever been proven to be false in the bible. Now to me the indicates Im on the right track as to wether what is writen is true or not, being that the New tesament is 2000+ yrs there has been ample opportunity to show it to be false. Know this, I do not believe if you believe in evolution you cant be a Christian. This is not a salvation issue. As for it being taught in school its my guess that the same people who want only evolution to be taught prolly dont have a problem with homosexualality being taught as ok in s*x Ed. class as well. Some people cant stand the thought of God being real, by allowing this to be taught they have to face the that they may be wrong........ :( ouch
 

Toad2001

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
403
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Funny, I believe even more strongly in evolution now after reading this primitive post...Some of us have evolved more than others. <br /><br />from LubricantDude:<br />"I've always felt that the only reason for the theory of evolution is because if you dont beleive in creation, then you do not have to be held accountable for anything and you can just do whatever feels good! After all, you are the deciding factor for everything and there is no right or wrong! Thus Gay marrage and all the garbage in the world!"<br /><br />His opinion yes, but what a bunch of misguided BS in my opinion. Did they teach you to hate in church LD?<br />Onward, Christian soldier...
 

SCO

Lieutenant
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Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Science cant be perfect, and If they find a skull, they speculate, then find more and reject some earlier ideas. You cant find perfect populations of all creatures, and creationists have taken this as proof that evolution cant be proven. Ridiculous. For example, people speculated that modern man evolved from neanderthal because they buried the dead and were tool and fire users. It is now thought that all modern humans came out of africa essentially the way we are today(except for racial differences) some 100,000 years after Neanderthal based on dna studies showing accumulations of mutations as modern humans spread throughout the world. We killed them off. Point is that science has a frontier that may be right or wrong or partially right, and with time the answers are determined...or not. It has always been that way. Those studies arent to fill transitional gaps to prove evolution, they are to fill as many gaps in our knowledge as possible. The evolution part is proven to the scientist digging fossils up. There will always be unanswerable mysteries..., but think about this, from cave man times, hasn't our understanding of how the world works, religion, science moved from that crude understanding to what we know to be the truth today as best we can tell. What is unknown is getting smaller, and what we know is unknown is getting larger.<br /><br />M&R...I have a problem with homosexuality being taught in sex ed. I dont want the muslim version of creation taught, and frankly dont care if they teach evolution in public school. They didn't teach it when I was there that I recall. Is it ok to teach geology, archeology, fossil studies, genetics, taxonomy, comparative anatomy.....or is that going to step on toes.
 

mikeandronda

Lieutenant Commander
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May 13, 2003
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Re: creation science vs. evolution

SCO your right, Im not saying Creation should be taught in school but maybe it should be presented as anouther possability and let our children decide if they choose to persue it. I just think sinse there is no proof of evolution we should make it clear to our kids its only a theory.<br /><br />Toad you are one of the most hatful, opininated people on here. You attack anything you dont agree with and act as if what you say must be true and all others are bad,closeminded and preduduce. You have no right to say what you did to lubedude. Oh but I forgot we should listen to your opinions without saying we believe in something different.....but you on the other hand have every right to be a an opiniated person. :mad: :mad: :mad: Oh ya I gotta run now so go ahead and say what you will I cant defend myself so have at it. Maybe you can insit a fight here with the others and then go back later and change all your responses to make it look like people are being rude to you and you dont deserve it. Its not not like you havent done that in the past.
 

SCO

Lieutenant
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Messages
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Re: creation science vs. evolution

Well said M&R, I was hoping we could do this without the whole post being poofed. How about it mods, can you delete /modify if it gets bad for as long as you can and then lock it?
 

JoeW

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 8, 2003
Messages
664
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Troll!
 

Toad2001

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
403
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Hateful? Me? Opinionated, Perhaps. Don't give a $hit what you might necessarily think, bingo. <br />I wouldn't have even entered this topic had LD not categorized Gays as Garbage among the world.<br />If I misinterpreted something, please let me know. I'll appologize. Otherwise, I stand by my post.<br />Its not the first time he has been bashing gays, and I'm just sick of it. It disgusts me. The fact now he's using religion as a crutch to support his anti-gay beliefs (which weren't at issue here) is pathetic.<br />That's the way I see it from here.
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Anyway, moving on...<br /><br />Another area of ‘science’ that is starting to receive appropriate skepticism is archeology. Like their colleagues in biology, if an academic in archeology challenges the current model of civilization, their career is over.<br /><br />For your entertainment:<br /><br />Are dinosaurs dead? Caution: this is a creationist website, but the pictures…<br /> http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=15 <br /><br />I don’t have a clue what to make of the Star Child. If what is written on the website is true, the skull is not the result of any deformity or disease. Bizarre! <br /> http://www.starchildproject.com/ <br /><br />This is the real deal…UFO proof in the works! :) Fwiw, this group caught the attention of Congress, who passed legislation regarding their efforts.<br /> http://www.disclosureproject.org/
 

JoeW

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 8, 2003
Messages
664
Re: creation science vs. evolution

I don't mean to defend anyone toad, and you know my stance on that issue; but, I don't think LubeDude's comment was directed at gays, but rather at same sex marriage.
 

glass from the past

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
103
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Ouch!<br /><br />Why doesn't anyone know how to respect anothers opinion (right or wrong) I mean it ain't right what Toad said, but then to blast him for his opinion and rude comments to cerealdude is just as bad as what he said. I think we all took his comments at face value and realized he was way outta line. (no AMSOIL for you!)<br /><br />another thread way out of hand, what happened to the good old days when we argued about props and 2 stroke oil, that's why I joined this forum. Some of the people here end up ticking off the guys and gals that have good advice to offer and then what? They leave this forum and we lose someone who had something valuable to share. You (and you know who you are) keep this up and I'll have to buy a manual for my boat or something cause it seems all the loudmouths don't know jack about boats, let alone if synthetic is best for my engine. <br /><br />I mean why bother to say what you feel when someone is gonna attack you one way or the other in the name of their beliefs? Sounds like a another group of individuals that we got problems with.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents, Semper Fi!
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: creation science vs. evolution

That starchild looks like my 3rd cousin once removed. The pleiosaur? That would be cool to find it true, but it wouldnt prove anything but that we thought them extinct but they aren't. Birds are dinosaurs.
 

JoeW

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 8, 2003
Messages
664
Re: creation science vs. evolution

There was this guy in basic training. His head was so big and odd shaped that he went through the entire cycle without a fatigue hat. The Army didn't make them that size. They had to special order it. He spent the entire time in basic wearing a steel pot without the liner. Even it was small and he had to wear it on the back of his head. Poor guy was the brunt of so many jokes that even the jokester got tired of teasing him.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Originally posted by Toad2001:<br />Funny, I believe even more strongly in evolution now after reading this primitive post...Some of us have evolved more than others. <br /><br />from LubricantDude:<br />"I've always felt that the only reason for the theory of evolution is because if you dont beleive in creation, then you do not have to be held accountable for anything and you can just do whatever feels good! After all, you are the deciding factor for everything and there is no right or wrong! Thus Gay marrage and all the garbage in the world!"<br /><br />His opinion yes, but what a bunch of misguided BS in my opinion. Did they teach you to hate in church LD?<br />Onward, Christian soldier...
As I have been reading through these posts I came upon this absolutley classical example of debate Leftwing style. <br /><br />Edit by Mod2. You want to express your opinion...fine....don't bash another member.<br /><br />ok Mod2, but I sure don't know what I said wrong other than stating a widely recognised syndrome that was embodied in the above post. It certainly was less inflamatory than this statement.<br /><br />" His opinion yes, but what a bunch of misguided BS in my opinion. Did they teach you to hate in church LD?<br />Onward, Christian soldier..."
 

JoeW

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 8, 2003
Messages
664
Re: creation science vs. evolution

Hey glass,<br />You musta wandered into dockside chat by mistake. We're not supposed to talk about boats here. This is for everything else, meaning politics, religion etc.
 
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