evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

[dangerRanger84]

First off id like to say this forum is pretty frickin impressive. The amount of knowledge that flows through this site on a daily basis is nothing less than brillant. That is why im looking for as much help and information as possible to make my rebuild as successful and as fun as possible. So heres the story...

Last summer running my Ranger 354v at topped out/ trimmed out my fuel flow resitriction warning buzzer came on for a brief 2 to 3 seconds and then the worst thing happend, the motor stopped right in her tracks. After getting it home to my surprise the boat still started and at idle the knock was not audiable. But with just a little throttle the devil showed its face again.

So, now im knee deep in this rebuild project. Yesterday i managed to get the motor totally stripped and ready to be pulled out. Making sure to take a million pictures of every step and properly bagging and marking all of the bolts and wire locations. After doing my homework i put together the story in my head that the VRO pump had taken a crap and managed to run the motor lean at high speed and i spun a main bearing.

So my first question is. One, i need to know any hangups or speacial areas of the motor that particularly get difficult to rebuild. I did purchase a manual for it today and it has tons of great info but i was hopeing to hear ideas and stories from regular guys that have turned a few wrenches in their day and can help me along the way.

Any info of anysort concerning my task at hand with my motor would be much appreciated. i look forward to seeing just how much info i can pull from this forum to help me out.

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

Hell of a first post.
Not to worry, start with yr and model number , that way we can direct you to parts drawings.

Do you have the factory service book, thats a must (not seloc or clymer)
www.outboardbooks.com

Did you do a compression test yet, sounds like a seizure, due to piston galled onto cyl wall.
I wouldn't suspect the vro yet, could just be fuel lines clogged, filter blocked or even tank vent/pickup obstruction.
You will need to trace the source or it will seize again when rebuilt.
Try pumping the fuel out into a bucket and see if it maintains free flow.

Did you pull the cyl heads yet, anything you can do to lighten the load helps, got a hoist?

Engine rebuild kits here,
http://www.powerheadkit.com/

You'll need to locate a marine machine shop to bore the cyl's out, MI should have have those, especially in an area called 3 rivers.
2 rivers maybe not so much.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

Im at work at the moment but to the best of my knowledge the model number is 1505letg? when i get home tonight i can make sure thats deffinatley the correct one. and the year is a 1993.
As far as a hoist i just picked that up yesterday so i have one of those and my dad actually works at a machine shop that is more than capable of making the plate to lift from. last year when this had happend i did pull the heads when i had gotten the boat home and the cylinders were dry. Which at the time i "trusted" my local boat dealer where i had purchased it and they blamed vro.

So when the rebuild is complete the vro is being replaced with just the fuel version of the pump and ill have to premix the gas before hand but thats fine with me.

Again im sorry this is choppy today im trying to update this in a hurry and get back to work but thanks again for your help and ill be sure to post the correct model number when i get home. thanks again.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

ok now to update the poast. today i got the hoist from a buddy at the fd. i have to either make or purchase a lift plate to lift the powerhead up and off. once that tasks is complete ill be much better off and actually get to the portoin of the motor that ill feel much more comfortable with. mean while i have taken off the float bowls on the carbs and i am going to replace the bowl, needle and float while i have the carbs off. i believe that the model number on the motor is 150GLETG. As far as the point brought up previously, the local dealership had done the compression test and then had removed the heads to physically inspect the pistoin heads and if im remembering this right the port side pistons are 2,4,6 and starboard side is 1,3,5. if thats not right the starboard side middle piston chattered a ton. hardly any carbon build up was present although all of the pistons on the starboard side did show signs of chattering from side to side, so im sure rings are junk also.
as far as main parts im going to replace: the two plastic fuel rails, carb gasket kit, main bearings, front and rear crankshaft bearings. piston heads, rings, wrist pin clips, carb float bowls, needle, and seat. i think thats is if you can think of anything else that should grab my attention please let me know.

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

150GLETG , googling the model number shows its 1993.
Before ordering anything, do a teardown and examine the block and crank.
If the block is bad or the crankshaft damaged sometimes its better to get a rebuilt head, trade in the core.

If its rebuildable a shop would normally charge $3500 for reman' 6 cyl's with 1 yr warrenty.
DIY should be $1K-1600 depending on machining required.
It should be quite a bit cheaper to get a rebuild kit than buying parts seperately.

Fuel rails may not be available, I think I read that recently. You can always find used parts on ebay if thats the case.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

Well today i managed to get the motor all ready to pulled. Hopefully sometime this week we'll be on our way. I found a machine shop in Hastings MI so thats only about 45 minutes away and he charges 200 for honing or 250 for boring. Although today when i finished taking the heads off im about 90% sure that the cylinders are sleeved! So that changes the game alot for me, im still going to take the block to the shop and see what he says and make sure it specs out but hopefully ill just be buying new sleeves rather than spending the money on boring.

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

That sounds all wrong, it costs more to re-sleeve.
Boring is usually $100 approx per cyl.

Try mar fab, they have a very good reputation with the techs here.
http://www.mar-fab.com/tech.html
They do machine from all over the country.
At least have chat with them, it well help.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

I would have thought it would cost less to sleeve it. But friday i pull the motor is there any special teicks to make it easier or any points of hangup? I cant say thank you enough for your help im always anxious to see if anyone has posted on my task. I look forward to hearing back.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

i managed to drop off the powerhead today and the guy said that two cyl's on the starboard side are going to be bored and other than that everything spec'd out. he had very reasonable prices though only 60 bucks for each cyl bored and 15 to hone. i pick it up mid next week he said and mean while im going to be ordering pistons and rings and start getting them assembled.

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

They usually need the piston first before boring.
Make sure the edges of the ports are relieved to prevent rings getting snagged.
I'm gonna page one of the pro engine rebuilders for you, lets see what he says.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

The machine shop ened up charging me 60 bucks per cyl bored and 15 per cyl honed. So I didnt think that it was too bad of a deal. 0n the other hand i still have a question. Can I use the caged needle bearings that are in the con-rods or should they always be replaced no matter what during the rebuild? they didnt show any signs of wear but i wasnt sure wether i should or not. Thanks again for you help, as always.

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

Wait for the tech.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

Sounds good, but dumb question what am i waiting on the tech for exactly?
and how will he contact me just via the thread?

 

[daselbee]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

Howdy...lots of questions. You are talking in generalities, and I would like to know specifics.

1. Two cyls bored...how much oversize, and which cyls?
2. You ordered pistons...what kind, all six, or just the two for the oversize bores?
3. The damage to the cyls...what was wrong...were they just scored, or was aluminum transferred from the piston to the cyl wall?
I would like to know the damage to try to figure out the cause. Sounds like it was lean, pistons swelled at higher temp, and locked up the motor. When cooled off, it will re-start, but damage was done. Does that sound like your failure?
4. I notice you say "chattered a piston"...not sure what that means, but you will definitely see that the pistons seem loose in the cyl vs. a car engine. Pistons very tight in a car, but seem loose in these outboards when compared. You can actually move the piston side to side in these OBs. Doesn't seem right, but it is, as long as the cyl bore measurements are in spec.
5. Your manual....I hope you got the factory manual, and not a Clymer or Seloc.

A couple of points...first don't assume these motors are like a car engine. I can tell by the wording of your posts that you are a car guy. These motors are all sleeved. Aluminum blocks with steel sleeves. Sounded sorta like you were surprised to see the sleeves. Second, spinning a bearing is not really applicable because they use roller needles like you have found out.
A bearing can and will seize up, self destruct, etc....but it is not like a car bearing shell that "spins" like you referred to. Third, IF THE PROBLEM IS OILING, the damage to the piston and cyl walls will be first to occur, then the bearing will go. Fourth...the cost of the machine shop work...boring is usually 35-50 per cylinder. Honing comes with the boring, and is extra on the cyls you do not bore. Fifteen bucks per cyl is an Ok price. Sleeving is a different matter. The sleeves alone cost 100-140 each, and the machine work is about that. Last sleeve job I had done was $330.00 for one cylinder. Your machine shop must be familiar with outboard two stroke engines, and must have the equipment to bore a blind hole. They must also know to bore it down past the bottom dead center of the piston travel, or the piston skirt will hit the edge where they stop the boring...it is complicated to describe, but they must be familiar with the ins and outs of OB two stroke engines.

So, now...during a rebuild, it is acceptable to do some cyls oversize and leave the others at STD size.

An absolute purist will insist on new bearings, new pistons/rings, new VRO pump, new carb kits....the whole nine yards.
I have done that route, and I have also cut many many corners.....mainly at the customer's request to save some money.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, it is Ok to reuse the pistons that are undamaged. It is OK to re-use the undamaged bearings. Now here is a gotcha...is that bearing undamaged or not? Hard to tell. If it came from the undamaged cylinders, probably OK. The ones from the two damaged cyls may have aluminum in them from the pistons that were trashed. Gotta clean everything up and inspect, inspect, inspect....to see if the parts are reusable.

Your rods....special attention must be placed on them. If you don't know it, the rods and caps are matched, and cannot be interchanged. The caps only go on one way. They must be aligned perfectly before you go torqueing the rod bolts. You can ruin the rod/cap assy. by torquing the cap when it is not aligned. You must use new rod bolts. That is one item that must be new.

You must use new rings. Pistons come with new rings, new pin, new circlips. If you re-use some of the old pistons, new rings are in order for those.

Your carbs....without knowing any more about the damage than I do, it sounds like you leaned two cyls out....
You MUST make sure the carbs are clean as you re-assemble to avoid killing your motor again. If is was dirty carbs, new kits and a thorough cleaning of all passages, INCLUDING the throttle bodies is required.
If it leaned out due to a fuel restriction, (you mentioned an alarm just as it shut down)...gotta get that corrected. That is they put an alarm on the incoming fuel line...it is such a critical issue when these OBs lean out...total destruction is coming if it is not corrected.

General assembly....CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN. No dirt, lint, hairs, grit, nothing as you assemble the rotating parts. If you get a piece of crap in a roller bearing, and it does not roll properly, you will not be able to tell as you turn the motor while you are assembling it, but it will self destruct quick.

I am sorry, I don't know your ignition system well. It is an optical system, and the WOT timing is set with a timing tool statically. You will have to set that WOT timing after re-assembly, and if it were me, I would set it two to four degrees retarded for the break in period.
Then, after you are sure you are good with the fuel mix, and engine rotating assembly (compression stays up), set the timing to spec.

'Ol jonesg is good with the opticals....Hi jonesg!

I don't know what else to tell ya...there are many many things that must be looked at carefully as you assemble the motor.
Get a factory manual and study, post other questions as you come up with them, and I guarantee you, any question you have will have already been answered on this forum somewhere, so use the search feature.

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

Hahah you da man!

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

well havent gotten the powerhead back yet. although after breaking the pistons and con-rods down i have to purchase a new rod due to a few mars on the big end where the bearing rides. should have my gasket set in the mail anyday. turned out to not be that bad it was 100.00 bucks for a whole set. rebuilding the carbs tonight with the new needles and seats.

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

When you get it back make sure the ports have been relieved to prevent the rings from snagging.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

Hey guys,
for a long over due update on the rebuild project. I got my powerhead back this week. Cyls 1,3 and 6 were bored 20 over and the rest were honed. got all new fuel lines from the tank back and for the vro. also got all new water lines. When i had gotten the block back i had it hot tanked and she looks as good as new. my parts will be in tomorrow for all the pistons. and in the mean time i managed to rebuild the carbs. so hopefully all goes well and things keep going nice and easy with it and soon enough ill be back intime for the tourneys this summer.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

You're cleaning the carbs by soaking overnight in carb cleaner with any core plugs removed, right? Then using compressed air to blow dry. Making sure no plastic parts go in the cleaner basket?

From what you said so far, my guess would be the VRO/OMS had nothing to do with the failure, but go ahead and ditch it if you're not comfortable with it. I would put my money on lean running, and not insufficient oiling.

 

[dangerRanger84]

Re: evinrude 150 spitfire rebuild

ok heres a dumb question for ya. while getting the motor all ready to go back together ive been a cleaning fool and cleaning all the parts i can get my hands on. Meanwhile, i noted there are large amounts of magnet chips and flakes on the inside of the flywheel. Further investigation proved that 2 of the magnets in the flywheel were broken and others were getting in rough shape. so i called around and i found out theres no rebuild kit available for it and everyone wants between 400 used to 730- 933 new. so after i cleaned my pants from that mess i was looking at my stator too and the contact points on it look thin. although im not sure what of what they should have looked like new in the first place. so im wondering if you have ever heard of anyone replacing magnets and whats the signs of a worn stator gonna look like. when the motor was running fine prevously the charging system worked just fine. thanks for your help once again.