hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

nwcove

Admiral
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May 16, 2011
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6,293
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

soooo......which is the best option?????? (JUST KIDDING!!!!!):p
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 22, 2005
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22,783
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

Excellent choice . . .
 

SparkieBoat

Captain
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Aug 17, 2009
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Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

one thing i neglected to mention is that I have a 25" shaft motor on a 20" transom. The boat was like this when I purchased it, the plan was to sell the motor and replace it with a 150/175 2 stroke. I have not sold the motor yet and just trying to make it work for the rest of this year. I have a manual jack plate raised all the way up, the hydofoil is still slightly under water while running at WOT and trimmed out. I have had only positive results from adding the hydrofoil. I figure the trim tabs will raise the transom another inch or two, which should have the hydrofoil out of the water at WOT. I sure wish I could find someone who would swap me for a 2 stroke 20" shaft. this 4 stroke is a very heavy motor and puts my self bailing holes under water when I stand on the rear of the boat fishing. I know the trim tabs will make a huge difference, I want the manual ones, so I am waiting to sell one of my boats, very hard to sell this year.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

That is a huge detail to leave out.

Trim tabs won't raise the transom in that way, your foil will still be under water.

You will have better results by taking off the foil and using tabs.

Can you mount the jackplate higher on the transom?
 

SparkieBoat

Captain
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Aug 17, 2009
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3,643
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

I have raised it as high as possible. I am starting to be persuaded towards the smart tabs, they are much less costly. If i get them I will try with and without the cav plate. I thought the trim tabs would create more lift on the transom, either way I need them and they will stay on the boat even after my motor switch.
 

chriscraft254

Commander
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Jun 4, 2011
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2,445
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

I have raised it as high as possible. I am starting to be persuaded towards the smart tabs, they are much less costly. If i get them I will try with and without the cav plate. I thought the trim tabs would create more lift on the transom, either way I need them and they will stay on the boat even after my motor switch.

You do not want to run a hydrofoil and trim tabs both. Either or, but not both!
 

ondarvr

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Apr 6, 2005
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11,527
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

I thought the trim tabs would create more lift on the transom, either way I need them and they will stay on the boat even after my motor switch.

They will create more lift on the transom, but the water level to the AV plate is governed by it's relationship to the transom, this doesn't change by adding trim tabs, it will still be underwater.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

You do not want to run a hydrofoil and trim tabs both. Either or, but not both!

Its still obvious you don't understand how foils and tabs work, they can be used together. Again, this is a case by case situation whether a foil will be of any value.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

Think you need to do a little more research on what smart tabs do.

Smart tabs self adjust to an up position when on a plane, they are valved to relax when on plane as to not cause drag but still give stability/performance. They are guaranteed by the company to give you gains at top speed of 2 to 4 mph. :):):eek:

I see nowhere on their website indicating valving that will reduce pressure at higher speeds, it says this is determined by the pressure rating of the exact model used and by the position on the mounting bracket. They do dicuss how this downward pressure (that isn't there) helps at speed to control the boat and allows it to react to waves.

Quote from the site "The nitrogen Gas Actuator provides LIFT at the stern of the boat by holding the trim plate down during acceleration. The amount of LIFT is determined by the actuator load rating and the trim plate adjustment, which is done at the time of installation."


Nor did I see anything claimed about an increase in speed. Should I call them and ask about these claims?

Like with any other performance product placed on a boat, your results will vary depending on many different things, so there is no way you can guaranty an increase in speed. I can easily see how tabs may dramatically increase the performance of a hull, or do almost nothing.
 

chriscraft254

Commander
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
2,445
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

I see nowhere on their website indicating valving that will reduce pressure at higher speeds, it says this is determined by the pressure rating of the exact model used and by the position on the mounting bracket. They do dicuss how this downward pressure (that isn't there) helps at speed to control the boat and allows it to react to waves.

Quote from the site "The nitrogen Gas Actuator provides LIFT at the stern of the boat by holding the trim plate down during acceleration. The amount of LIFT is determined by the actuator load rating and the trim plate adjustment, which is done at the time of installation."

Nor did I see anything claimed about an increase in speed. Should I call them and ask about these claims?

Like with any other performance product placed on a boat, your results will vary depending on many different things, so there is no way you can guaranty an increase in speed. I can easily see how tabs may dramatically increase the performance of a hull, or do almost nothing.

Call them if you like or just go to this part of there site. All the questions you stated will be answered here. There gaurantee is on the last page.
http://www.nauticusinc.com/pdf/nauticus_smart_tabs_tech_info.pdf

If you would like to discuss this further you can pm me so this thread doesn't get closed like others have. I will be more than happy to inform you on how they operate or you can call nauticus. Peace
 

ondarvr

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Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

You are actually correct, they do make that 2-4 MPH claim on the last line of the last page. I would love to take them up on that, because on some boats it may be more than that, but on others it could be no gain or even a loss. I would say that with the normal improvements seen by using tabs nobody is going to complain if they don't actually see the 2-4 MPH increase. I was wondering if they make the claim for that Sea Ray, or if they mean it for all boats.

Why do certain props work on some boats and not on others, why are there 2, 3, 4 and 5 bladed props with every imaginable shape and style of blade if one type of prop (tool) should work in every situation. Tabs are like any other add on?.results will vary.

Again, the example of using a foil in the add is totally wrong, they should never be used in that way, it is absolutely the least likely way for one to have any positive results. Do you expect them to show how a foil may help if used correctly? When you base your belief system on misunderstandings the facts matter little.

Remember I agree that tabs are great products and are far more useful than a foil, foils have very limited applications and there are normally better, but far more costly ways to get the same or better results. Although I do find the high performance boat sites tend to like the Alison drag plates, or similar ones, they are the same idea as a plastic foil, only made from aluminum.

I?m actually going to put tabs on one of my boats because a foil would be of no value for what I need to do, one of my other boats has a foil because tabs would have been of no value for what I needed to do on it. Different tools for different needs and situations.

The problem is people don't use any critical thinking when reading advertising and understanding how to use these two products, they don't seem to understand what each product can and can't do. It appears that if some people can't fully understand a tool (and these are tools) it must be bad, sort of like the hammer and crescent wrench example I gave before.
 

SparkieBoat

Captain
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Aug 17, 2009
Messages
3,643
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

ok I give in ..I really did not want smart tabs at first..but the more research I do the better they look. so I got a set of them on the way Nauticus ST1290-80 Smart Tab Trim Tabs - ST1290-80...under $170..not bad price..I hope they work.
 

chriscraft254

Commander
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Jun 4, 2011
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2,445
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

ok I give in ..I really did not want smart tabs at first..but the more research I do the better they look. so I got a set of them on the way Nauticus ST1290-80 Smart Tab Trim Tabs - ST1290-80...under $170..not bad price..I hope they work.

Did you check with nauticus to make sure these were the right ones for your boat? I know some people have ordered the wrong size, thats why I' m asking. Good luck and keep us posted on how they do for you.
 

SparkieBoat

Captain
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
3,643
Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

I ordered it according to the chart they provided. This model is for boats 17-22 with 150-225 HP motors, I only have a 115 now but will be upgrading to a 150/175 2 stroke as soon as I can sell the four stroke thats on it. I have a 19' seapro SV1900.
 

chriscraft254

Commander
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
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Re: hydrofoil or trim tabs or both??

I ordered it according to the chart they provided. This model is for boats 17-22 with 150-225 HP motors, I only have a 115 now but will be upgrading to a 150/175 2 stroke as soon as I can sell the four stroke thats on it. I have a 19' seapro SV1900.

They should be ok, but they will be a stronger actuator for the higher hp rating. If they are to much, I'm sure nauticus will exchange the 80 lbs actuators for the 60 lbs actuators. They may put to much lift on the stern and not relax early enough with the 115 pushing her. Try them out and see. If you have any issues, like I said, I'm sure they would swap them out. That will be the right size actuators if you get the higher hp motor for sure.
 
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