Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

[tpenfield]

The survey of my 'new to me' Formula 330SS indicated that there are higher than normal levels of moisture in the bulkheads. I also found water residing in the forward compartment due to a leaking anchor locker, and the associated bulkhead seems to have absorbed a good amount of water. The initial drying out of the bulkhead resulted in some spider cracks appearing on the outside of the hull along the location of the bulkhead. (I assume this was due to shrinkage of the wood core and surrounding fiberglass that occurred, etc)

So far, I have removed the standing water from all the areas where it was present & trapped. (Yes, the PO was probably not aware of the issues)

I should also mention that there is a small crack (4 inches) in the fiberglass along a 'separator' for the starboard side 'sub-stringers' in the engine compartment. (sorry, I don't have any pics of this). I have fed some bleach into the crack to fight any deterioration that may have started. This crack seems to have appeared due to a very small void (1/16") in the glass right at the corner where it intersects the engine mount stringer.

Ideally, I would like to get the water/moisture out of these bulkheads and apply preventative treatments to these areas to fight off rot, etc. The boat is 16 years old and has been in fresh water on a seasonal basis for its entire life. I feel that the boat is at a turning point in that if the water retention is not address now, it will lead to a fair amount of structural rot in a few years time. If I can address it now, then the boat should have good longevity.

So . . . my question to the forum. How might I 'get the water out' of the bulkheads at this stage of the game?

I was thinking of drilling some test holes at the lowest and highest levels of the bulkheads, etc where water has accumulated and then applying heat (like 100+ degrees F) for several days. If need be, I could also allow some Ethylene Glycol (EG Anti-freeze) to soak into the bulkheads through these 'test holes' . . . sort of like 'chemotherapy for boats'.

Do you think this would be a good approach? Anyone else done this sort of thing ? Ideas & suggestions?

Thanks in advance (TIA)

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Trying to dry out wood encased in fiberglass is like soaking a piece of plywood in water then putting it in a garbage bag and trying to dry it out... it ain't going to happen, not any time soon... like within a year.

The cracking comes from the wood absorbing water and swelling.

Best bet for a fix is to go ahead and start cutting out the afflicted area now before it gets any worse and replace it.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

The boat is completing the circle of life. The two areas to be concerned with is the wood in the transom and the wood in the stringers. If there is damp wood there, its only a matter of time before you need to call the priest for its last rites.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

So . . . my question to the forum. How might I 'get the water out' of the bulkheads at this stage of the game?

I was thinking of drilling some test holes at the lowest and highest levels of the bulkheads, etc where water has accumulated and then applying heat (like 100+ degrees F) for several days. If need be, I could also allow some Ethylene Glycol (EG Anti-freeze) to soak into the bulkheads through these 'test holes' . . . sort of like 'chemotherapy for boats'.

Do you think this would be a good approach? Anyone else done this sort of thing ? Ideas & suggestions?

Thanks in advance (TIA)

You know that won't work Penfield, and I'm surprised you even suggest it. You've been hanging out here on iboats long enough to know better than that.

Even if you took a Dremmel tool and cut through the fiberglass at the corners of the bulkheads and peeled it off of the plywood it would take a month or more to dry out with heat applied... and that's only if you can remove both sides of the 'glass on the ply.

It's best just to cut out the bad stuff back to dry wood and replace it, and the only way to do the job right.

... now go put on some old clothes and grab your camera and get to work! We'll be expexting boat repair porn on our desk in the morning!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Yea, you guys are funny, and you should know by now that I like a challenge. So, it is 'game on' to see in more detail what we are dealing with and how it can be fixed. Hold off calling the priest until further notice.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Encapsulated "WET WOOD" even if dried out will eventually turn to DRY ROT. It WILL Sweat with changes in temps etc... It all depends on how long you want to keep the boat. The time and effort it will take to do what you are proposing will be MUCH more than to demo and replace. In my neck of the woods, Time is money and time on the water is better than time working on the boat.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

The initial drying out of the bulkhead resulted in some spider cracks appearing on the outside of the hull along the location of the bulkhead. (I assume this was due to shrinkage of the wood core and surrounding fiberglass that occurred, etc)

The drying of bulkheads will not cause spider cracks on the outside of the hull.

I cant think of a way to dry out encapsulated plywood.

YD.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

So how's this working out for you Penfield? Any progress?

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

No progress as the boat is at the summer house and I only get there a couple times a month. I do want to get some test holes drilled, etc. before the winter sets in. So, I'll post some updates and pics as I go.

i am still finishing off my fresh water cooling installation on the engines. The bulkheads are next on the hit parade.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Update -

I bought a moisture meter and did some checking of various parts of the engine room structure today. First, I did some reference checking on a few pieces of wood.

Random plywood that had been lying on the garage floor. 7% moisture reading . . .


Soft Pine wood trim on the shed . . . 23%


Then I proceeded to drill some test holes and check the boat's structure.

Firewall bulkhead - low & center . . . 40+% (very wet)


Here is the center stringer that goes between the engines . . . 33%


Here is the starboard stringer, adjacent to the small crack in the spacer that lies between the sub-stringers. . . 17%


I expected this to be a lot higher, due to the crack in the fiberglass that is nearby.

Here is the port engine mount stringer . . .


More photos on the next posts . . . .

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Update (continued) -

Here is the spacer between the starboard sub-stringers, where the crack in the fiberglass is . . .


I was expecting it to be higher . . . maybe the crack is allowing some of the moisture to escape.

Here is the Port side higher up on the firewall bulkhead . . . 28%


I took some measurements in the forward part of the boat. Here is the reading for the V-berth floor . . .


Everything up in the cabin/v-berth was about 15-20%, even the forward bulkhead, which had water up against it for God only knows how long. That seems to have dried out some.

The midsection bulkhead had some trim pieces with 40+ % moisture, but the other pieces were around 25%.

Based on the 40+ readings in the firewall bulkhead center section, I decided to start the Chemotherapy (a.k.a. Ethylene Glycol) now and see how it does over the winter. Here is a picture of the tube that I have feeding the bulkhead (tube with green fluid). There is about 1 quart of EG in the reservoir, so we will have to see how much it takes over the next couple of months.


I also feed some chemo into the crack on the starboard side . . . it drank quite a bit.


At least the E.G. will keep it from freezing and expanding over the winter, in addition to killing any rot that may be setting in.

I might have one more update over the winter, as I plan on adding a limber hole into the firewall bulkhead to provide some drainage for the fuel tank bay. That may be the source of the bulkhead problems. . .

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Here is a diagram of the moisture readings that I found throughout the structure of the engine bay . . .



Based on the readings, it looks like the moisture is progressing into the center engine mount stringer. So, that will be getting some attention. I have read some threads on the OSO forum about folks who have needed to restore this center stringer. . . :facepalm:

It looks like the firewall bulkhead continues to be the weak point on Formula's . . . it accumulates moisture over the years and then spreads it into the adjacent stringers. Anyway, it looks like addressing the moisture will be a spring prep project. It is getting too cold to do much additional work.

 

[xanthras]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

I would just start gutting the back end now before it gets too bad. Since you have a v Berth you may only need to do partial replacements on the rear. There was another Formula thread not too long ago and he was able to just do the back end. The band aids are just band aids. We did some partials on our boat. Good luck!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

There was another Formula thread not too long ago and he was able to just do the back end.

It was me (probably) . . . I had a Formula 242SS before this boat. I had the engine out for some re-build work and noticed the rotted bulkhead . . . it had even gone into the stringers. Fixed it all up, even replaced the fuel tank, got it all back together, then shortly into the boating season the engine hydro-locked and destroyed itself. :facepalm: http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...nger-bulkhead-repairs-w-many-pics-534913.html

This boat is in a better situation. So, I am going to 'monitor' things for a while. Then if the engines need to come out at some point, I may fix the bulkhead. Right now, I want to try to head-off the propagation of moisture. When I bought the boat, the surveyor noted that there was a high level of moisture in the center of the bulkhead . . . he was right. So, I knew going in that I needed to take a look at this sooner rather than later.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Looks like you're going to have some work to do penfield.

Judging the condition of the pine trim on your shed, I'd say any reading of 20% or more wouldn't be good. You can even see the slight green tinge of algae on your shed siding.

I imagine it's too cold up there right now for any kind of resto work right now except for demolition... just grab a beer and kick back and keep an eye on that moisture meter 'til the weather warms up eh?!

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Just because you have elevated readings does not automatically merit a cut and gut.

Good wood ( wet or dry ) is still good wood.

Bad/Rotted wood needs to be replaced.

It looked like in your pics that you drilled/probed into Good wood ( moist but still good ). I could be wrong.

A moisture meter is good to look for a multitude of problems. But is does not mean you have a significant problem in and of itself.

Looking for where the moisture is coming from ( like snaps,windows,railings,through hulls etc. ).

You might be looking at sealing up a few screw looms for now.

Again .. Wet wood is not Bad/Rotted wood. It will be in the future ... but its still serving just as well as dry wood.

YD.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Wet fiberglass encapsulated wood is rotten wood in the gestation period, it hasn't been born yet... but it will be.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Ayuh,.... I agree with YD,... Wood is wet when the tree is cut down, 'n is dried to spec,...

Wet wood, Good wood, can be Redried...

After My experiments with antifreeze, I think Ted doin' the right thing with dopin' up any Potential rot life, before it's born...

I'd think higher heat would remove more moisture,...
Something like a milkhouse heater, up close, with it's fan blowin'....

I think the lack of limber holes might be the culprit in the hi readin's...

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Good wood ( wet or dry ) is still good wood.

Abso-freaking-lutely! Elevated levels of moisture would be expected in ANY boat that's got over a year on it. It's just a matter of internal condition.

I'm so tired of reading the "you're gonna have to gut everything and grind down to 'glass and start over" responses on these types of threads but that doesn't change the fact that you're going to run across some issues.

Thank you, YD, for being the voice of reason on behalf of myself and the OP.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Yes, the wood is good . . . it is just reading high in moisture. (as you can see in the photos, I am able to stick the meter into the tests spots and the wood holds it in place). The only place where the wood was questionable was in the area of the 43% reading. So, that is why I started doping it up with antifreeze. I probably will dope up the center stringer as well, because it looks like that is feeding off of the bulkhead.

So this boat is far from a 'cut and gut' . . . I would not have bought the boat if it was even close to that. I think that you could take any 10-15 year old boat and get similar moisture readings.

Anyway, to address the moisture, it is a little bit like this:

There is not a lot of documented processes of this nature (i.e., reducing the moisture). So, maybe I will keep a good journal and post something, if it all works out.

I'm thinking that with some heat, and maybe during the winter as the relative humidity is lower, I could get the wood to dry out more; that is if I can elevate the temperature of the structure enough. .

At some point the firewall bulkhead may need to be replaced . . . If I do nothing, that time could be just a few years off. If I can provide some corrective action, maybe that time will be 10 years off . . . maybe more.