Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

[jigngrub]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Wet wood, Good wood, can be Redried...

If it is bare wood, try to dry wood that has been painted and then got wet and so how much luck you have... and we all know glassed over wood is even worse... buy a sheet of 3/4" pressure treated plywood and see how long it takes to dry out without any coatings on it.

All the rotten boats we see that come through the dry dock here started out as "wet good wood", but the wood didn't stay good once it got wet.


Maybe if Penfield parked his boat in Death Valley for a summer it might dry out... but I doubt it.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

If it is bare wood, try to dry wood that has been painted and then got wet and so how much luck you have... and we all know glassed over wood is even worse... buy a sheet of 3/4" pressure treated plywood and see how long it takes to dry out without any coatings on it.

All the rotten boats we see that come through the dry dock here started out as "wet good wood", but the wood didn't stay good once it got wet.


Maybe if Penfield parked his boat in Death Valley for a summer it might dry out... but I doubt it.

Ayuh,.... It takes Heat, 'n Air Movement,... It can be done, as I've done it....

In Ted's case, the milkhouse heater would probably be the tool to work with,...
Best case, in a heated warehouse, this time a year...

I'd cut the limber holes that are missin', 'n start dryin' it with the heater,...
Cuttin' the holes, will give the water an escape route, so less heat, over less time will be needed...
'course, there's gotta be vents in the top of whatever is dryin' too, to vent off the moisture...

Once dried, seal the limber holes with whatever ya wish, pickle it with abit of antifreeze, then seal up the rest of the areas necessary...

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Ayuh,.... It takes Heat, 'n Air Movement,... It can be done, as I've done it....

In Ted's case, the milkhouse heater would probably be the tool to work with,...
Best case, in a heated warehouse, this time a year...

I'd cut the limber holes that are missin', 'n start dryin' it with the heater,...
Cuttin' the holes, will give the water an escape route, so less heat, over less time will be needed...
'course, there's gotta be vents in the top of whatever is dryin' too, to vent off the moisture...

Once dried, seal the limber holes with whatever ya wish, pickle it with abit of antifreeze, then seal up the rest of the areas necessary...

I agree. That plus time.

A few 1/4" holes through the glass and a little in the wood here and there would help as well.

YD.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Thank you for the replies everyone . . .

I might get some time over the Thanksgiving weekend to work on the boat, but with the kids home from college, who knows.

Anyway, I plan on adding a limber hole in the firewall bulkhead (that's what Formula calls it . . . firewall bulkhead). Then, I plan to take a multiple step approach . . .

1) Drill - holes in areas where moisture needs to escape, add limber holes, etc as needed.. . . . use a shop vacuum to pull any excess water out of the worst areas.
2) Dry - heat those areas for an extended period, check moisture content.
3) Dope - Once dry, apply Ethylene Glycol to the areas, let soak in for weeks/months.
4) Dry (again) - dry out the E. G. treated areas with heat, re-check moisture content.
5) Seal - all the holes while heat is still applied . . . this should ensure that the remaining moisture content is at its lowest.
6) Check - take some readings each year to see how things are doing.

I am also thinking that if I heat/dry the effected areas during the winter months (cold/dry January & February days), and seal things up while still 'warm', it will yield the best results.

We shall see how it goes. . . as per usual, I'll post updates along the way.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Thats what I would do mate ..

YD.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Update:

I did a bit more work on the boat today . . . and started to do the drilling. The bulkhead 'drank' 1 quart of the EG over the course of the past couple of weeks.

I drilled a hole in the bulkhead, just adjacent to the holes for the drains to the forward compartments. Everything is kind of cruddy in the bilge, but the arrows in the pics point to the limber holes for the forward compartments. The fact that there were two limber holes was a bit of a discovery (more on that to come).



The 'plug' from the newly drilled hole was solid, meaning that the wood has not deteriorated, which is a good thing. . .



Here is another view of the hole . . . I plan to finish this off with a fitting to have it a permanent thru-hull.



I found where the moisture is coming from, as I had expected. . . the fuel tank bay

I also started some EG flowing into the engine center stringer.



Next week plans are for more drilling and some heat to be applied to the problem areas.

You can also follow this project on my web site: http://www.tpenfield.com/Formula330/Structural_Moisture.html

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

I sent Formula Boat's Tech Support group an email about drainage of the forward bulkhead. My boat did not have any drainage up front that led to the bilge, so I asked them if it was an anomaly. Today, I got a reply from Scott Smith at Formula Boats regarding the limber hole/drainage in the forward bulkhead area. He said . . .

"we did not put drain holes in the water tank compartment bulkhead. It is pretty rare for water to collect there, so there was never a concern to drain it. The tube running from the cabin sump to the bilge is there to evacuate that compartment should it ever fill up."

So, I guess I will have to monitor the forward bulkhead to see if any additional water collects there, now that I have repaired the anchor locker . . . (it had a hole in it and was leaking into the boat). It has also crossed my mind that the fresh water tank (that butts up against the forward bulkhead) is perhaps leaking. So, I will have to test out the possibilities, etc.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Weekend Update (Dec 8th)

I am spending the weekend working on the boat, so I made some progress with the moisture remediation.

The center stringer did not take much of the antifreeze, so I proceeded to do the drilling of the bulkhead and the stringers. Below are a couple of photos.





I also sucked some moisture out of the fuel tank bay with the shop vac . . .



Then it was time to apply some heat to the bulkhead. My plan was to raise the temperature of the bulkhead to approximately 120 degrees for an extended period of time. My boxy old space heater seemed to do the trick. I enclosed the heating area so that the heat would be concentrated on the bulkhead and not dissipate too quickly. Here is a picture of the space heater with foil and padding covering the bulkhead. I set the thermostat on the heater fairly high and also put a thermometer into the wood in the bulkhead to be able to monitor the temperature.



It took quite a few hours, but the temperature finally reached the 120 degree range.



I also monitored the moisture level with my meter and noticed that after about 8 hours of heating the moisture levels have started to come down. I think it will take most of the weekend to bring the moisture down significantly. We shall see how things go tomorrow.

I am figuring that this may take several iterations as the higher moisture levels in other areas will be drawn back into the bulkhead as it dries out. We shall see how it goes. . .

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Sunday Night Update . . .

I ran the heater for a second day to dry things out. I also expanded the enclosed area to cover both sides of the bulkhead.



Towards the afternoon, I realized that I probably need to drill a second hole in the bulkhead on the starboard side (The first hole that I drilled is just to the port side of the keel).

The wood structure on Formulas is raised off the hull about 1/2" during the layup and glassing of the stringers. This 1/2" gap creates a channel for water to collect and actually migrate through the structure in some cases. Normally, I should be able to draw all of the water out of this gap on both sides of the bulkhead from the single hole that I drilled. However, it appears that the 2 limber holes are in the way and trapping water on the starboard side of the bulkhead.

I tried to drill a second hole just to the starboard side of the keel, but there were a few obstructions preventing good access. The hole needs to be as close to the keel as possible in order to be effective in draining the bulkhead and the fuel bay. So, I may have to get creative or cut away the obstructions.

Anyway, I won't have a chance to do any additional work for about a month or so, as the Christmas holiday approaches. I will probably need a more heavy duty heater by then as it will be mid-January, and there is no telling what the weather will be like. . . could be warm could be cold. :noidea:

So, I probably will not have another update until then.

TTFN

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

What do you hypothesize the long term effects of the glycol on the plywood glue will be? What about the resin and fiberglass bond to the plywood?

Have you drilled any new hole for readings with the moisture meter?

Have you considered "skinning" the existing fiberglass off of the bad/wet areas and just leaving the bare plywood to dry... then lay up new glass after the wood has dried out?

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Re: Structural Moisture Remediation - 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Great questions, as I was concerned about effects of EG on the FRP, etc..

What do you hypothesize the long term effects of the glycol on the plywood glue will be? What about the resin and fiberglass bond to the plywood?

I have not found anything specific about the effects of EG on the plywood, just some information on boatdesign.net and woodenboat.com regarding its use on both dimensional wood and plywood. So, I think that the effects may be longer in term than the useful life of the boat. I was also concerned about the EG versus the FRP, and found a company that actually makes FRP tanks for EG storage ( Quality Fiberglass Tanks & Service - Design Tanks ). So, I think that aspect will be OK.


Have you drilled any new holes for readings with the moisture meter?

Yes, the moisture levels are coming down, although slowly. Now that I have provided and escape hole for the water in the lower portion of the bulkhead, it seems that the water (moisture) is now moving down in the bulkhead . . . kind of like lowering the water level in a pond. So, I am seeing meter readings reduce in the upper portions of the bulkhead, while the lower levels are still very wet. . . probably a hydrostatic pressure sort of thing. I also noticed a similar thing happening in the center stringer.

Have you considered "skinning" the existing fiberglass off of the bad/wet areas and just leaving the bare plywood to dry... then lay up new glass after the wood has dried out?

Yes, if the bulkhead does not dry out sufficiently with merely a set of holes and some heat applied, then I have considered 'skinning' a couple of large areas to dry it out. These areas could then be re-glassed.

 

[frantically relaxing]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

What may help speed up your progress would be to get some sort of desiccant. Get a pound of those 'balls' and fill up some old socks and hang in the bilge and other area's you're trying to dry out. The moisture you're removing has to go someplace, and the air in a dank, humid bilge can only hold so much moisture...

From what I understand, most desiccants will reduce the dew point of surrounding air to -100?, which means the air will attract much more moisture as the desiccant absorbs it...

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

What may help speed up your progress would be to get some sort of desiccant. Get a pound of those 'balls' and fill up some old socks and hang in the bilge and other area's you're trying to dry out. The moisture you're removing has to go someplace, and the air in a dank, humid bilge can only hold so much moisture...

From what I understand, most desiccants will reduce the dew point of surrounding air to -100?, which means the air will attract much more moisture as the desiccant absorbs it...

Sounds like a good idea . . . I have not visited the boat in a while, since it is at the 'summer place', but I cannot imagine the evaporation is too great over the winter. I was thinking of getting a kerosene heater to blow hot air into the bilge, but the desiccants might to the trick.

I probably won't get to look at the boat for another few weeks . . . maybe I can order some of that 'stuff' in the meantime.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

With the cold arctic blast in the northeast, I was thinking that it would be a great time to pump some hot air into the bilge of the boat to dry things out, as the dew points are way down. but . . . I am on vacation, skiing. So, I hope there is some cold temps later in the month :noidea:

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Quick Update -

I was at "the Cape" this weekend to check on house and boat. It has been relatively cold on Cape Cod lately - single digits some mornings - which is unusual.

Anyway, whatever moisture levels that are currently in the boat's bulkhead and connecting stringers is pretty well frozen right now. However, it does look like I am going to need a greater amount of surface area exposed on the bulkhead to evaporate water from the wood structure. Drilling holes here and there just don't seem to be having enough impact, and I'm thinking that even with warmer temperatures in a couple of months, things are not going to dry out fast enough with the current amount of exposed surfaces.

So, I think that I will cut some of the fiberglass skin off of the bulkhead on both port & starboard sides, and maybe some smaller areas on the center engine mount stringer. This should give me a reasonable amount of surface area to heat and evaporate water.

I am thinking about what variety of tools might be best for cutting the fiberglass skin of the bulkhead (about 1/8" thick) . . . maybe some mandrel mounted 'cut-off' blades and a high speed drill. . . . maybe a hole saw to open up a corner and then try to cut a larger area with a sawz-all. . . then my handy wood chisels to separate the 'glass from the wood :eagerness:

Ideas ??? :noidea:

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Dremel tool and the carborundum cutting wheels they make for them, the wheels are small so you'll need several... I'd buy a dozen, they come in handy for other stuff too.

Wood chisel will work well for seperating the glass from the wood.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Multipurpose Ocillating tool would be ideal.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Ayuh,... a 4" grinder...

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

Thanks for the replies guys . . . some good ideas.

I do have a 4" grinder . . . so maybe some cutting blades for that. Probably, I'll do a Home Depot and/or Lowes run this weekend and see if I can get Dremel stuff, cutting wheels and maybe the oscillating tool.

I was thinking for the center bulkhead, I would just use a 2" hole saw right in the area underneath where that red cable is attached (pic below). Probably a hole on each side of it . . .

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Ideas/Suggestions for 'Drying Out' Bulkheads

I like the Dremel tool because it's small and easy to get into tight places with it, kinda like my... uh... er... never mind.:embarassed: