Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

[alamosaddles]

First of all, though a relatively new member of this forum, I have completely enjoyed most of the topics posted. Lots of good advice from this clearly diverse group of boat owners.

Now, our dilemma.

In mid 2005, we purchased a new 2004 Sea Boss 19ft bay boat. We got the whole package, boat, motor and trailer. The boat came equipped with a 2004Johnson 150 as well as with a 2004 aluminum trailer.

Well, in my search for a replacement propeller, I have just now discovered that the motor which they sold us as a 2004 motor, is actually a 2003 motor.

Now, I have no complaints on the performance etc. of this engine, however, I think it's clear that if you are sold a boat and motor of a given model year, then that's what you should have. The motor being a year older affects the resale value of our boat among other things. All of the paperwork such as the sales contract, receipts etc. show the motor to be a 2004 model.

We purchased this boat from Bob Hughes boats in Miami and like I said, we purchased it as a new leftover 2004 model.

Advice and comments on a course of action or if this has occured to anyone else in the past?

 

[RyanSS]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

What makes you think it's a MODEL YEAR 2003 and not 2004? My Nissan Frontier is a 2008 MODEL YEAR but it was built and I even bought it in 2007. Could it be that the motor is actually a 2004 motor that was BUILT in 2003?

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

What makes you think it's a MODEL YEAR 2003 and not 2004? My Nissan Frontier is a 2008 MODEL YEAR but it was built and I even bought it in 2007. Could it be that the motor is actually a 2004 motor that was BUILT in 2003?

While searching for a replacement prop the parts department folks at one of the local marine boat parts stores told me that my motor is not a 04, but is instead an 03.

Engine model number tag on the motor designates it as a 2003, not 2004.

Just in case I'm off my rocker, here are the numbers:

J150PXSTM

If I am wrong ,please someone enlighten me before I go on a tirade with the dealer!!!!

 

[newbster]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Whats your point?

Perhaps you can spend 5-20k paying a lawyer to hopefully recover a few hundred bucks?

Let it rest and pay more attention next time.

 

[erlindbl]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

If you look at the E-Tec infomercial they note this as a common problem and say some of the manufacturers have gotten away from model years for that very reason. The dealer buys the engines and doesn't sell them as fast as he expects. By the time it's sold, the engine model year and boat model year are not the same.

Like was posted above, I would make sure you are talking about the model year and not the manufacture year before you deal with the dealer. I just bought a Glastron which is an 08 with an E-tec which says it's an 09. The engine was made in 08 but is designated as an 09 model year.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Don't sweat the details... it's the same thing...

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Whats your point?

Perhaps you can spend 5-20k paying a lawyer to hopefully recover a few hundred bucks?

Let it rest and pay more attention next time.

My point is that we purchased a boat/motor/trailer combination under the guise of it being a 2004 package. My point is that if in fact, the motor is older than represented in all of the documentation, fraud, either intentional or unintentional was commited. My point is that when we purchased the package, we paid a dollar amount for the motor, based on a one year depreciation which would be considerably different if the motor was two years old, and not one year old. I am quite certain that in 2005, the price difference between a 2003 and a 2004 motor carries more than a few hundred bucks difference. Aside from that, a 2003 motor is NOT what we set out to purchase, nor is it what we purchased according to all of our contracts and documentation. I think you are making light of something which is pretty serious in my book.

I bet if you discovered that the vehicle which you purchased as a new model vehicle, actually turned out to be an older model vehicle, it would be important to you.

You say I should pay more attention next time.....I suppose when you bought your last vehicle, you checked the engine motor numbers to insure it matched your cars year? A 2003 150 Johnson may look the same as a 2004 model, but resale value is something I am entitled to, at least I would think so.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Don't sweat the details... it's the same thing...

I agree it is the same motor, and like I had said, performance and quality is not an issue.

My issue is the recent consideration to sell the boat and the fact that our selling value will be wrongly diminished if we have to sell the motor as being 5 years old instead of 4 years old. To the buyers, that one extra year makes a big difference, or doesn't it?

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

To the buyers, that one extra year makes a big difference, or doesn't it?

It would to me, at least with a newer OB motor.

The question now is, was it the dealer, or the manufacture that is misleading the consumer (you).

If it was a small ticket item, I wouldn't care, but this is the second most expensive piece of the boat. Had I bought a new 2007 auto and then found it to be in reality a new 2006, I would be really p*****.

I don't care when they manufactured it, if it is listed as a model year older as that what I bought, it is false advertising and misrepresentation of the product or goods being sold, and that is regardless of what others say, is a crime. A clean white collar crime, but still a crime.

File a complaint with the “U.S. Federal Trade Commission”: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ , and inform the company you are doing so.

It wont get you what you paid for, but it will go into a data base of similar cases. If it is seen to be an industry or company wide practice, they will prosecute the company or companies involved.

“Why: Your complaints can help us detect patterns of wrong-doing, and lead to investigations and prosecutions. The FTC enters all complaints it receives into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database that is used by thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement authorities worldwide. The FTC does not resolve individual consumer complaints.”

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I would probably be pretty irritated as well but I don't think it would be worth your time and effort to try to get any compensation. You may want to let the dealer know that you know they slighted you and you aren't happy....if for no other reason than to perhaps prevent it from happening to someone else. I really don't think it's going to effect your resale value. Outboard boats and motors often differ by 1 model year and I know I wouldn't think twice about it if I was looking to buy your boat.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

This is exactly the reason that manufacturers are getting away from putting a year on their engines. I say you get a good attorney and sue the hell out of them, don't let them get away with it! If there is one thing this country is lacking, it is good quality lawsuits.

Ok, to compare this to a car purchase is ridiculous, even to compare this to a boat with and I/O is ridiculous. This is two separate purchases even though you bought it like it was one. You need to check out the details before you signed the paperwork...

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Your motor ...

Used price 2003
Low Retail $4,075
Average Retail $4,580

Used price 2004
Low Retail $4,700
Average Retail $5,280

For many here, $700 is just chump change (they must have money to burn), but for me $700 is still $700, and that is what I would offer you for your boat and motor. $700 less than I would if it was a 2004.

You don't always have to run to an attorney, there are other avenues available to you.

Besides the FTC, you could also report the dealer to the Council of Better Business Bureaus. I have had real good luck with them playing mediator in the past, and the best part is, both are free!

P.S. your motor "is" listed as a 2003 model

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

what does the bill of sale say on it. It should have the model and serial # on it, along with boat and trailer ID. that's what you bought. The judge is going to go by the model and serial number, nothing else. You are wasting your time.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I think we are being a little harsh here folks. In the auto industry for example, new models used to make their debute in the September/October timeframe. A 1997 model would actually appear on the sales floor in Sept/Oct of 1996. Nowadays they seem to appear at any time during the previous calendar year. I recently bought a new pontoon with a Suzuki outboard. I did check the tags and it was sold as a 2008 but was MANUFACTURED in October of 2007. No problem there as it is a 2008 MODEL. In this gents situation however, he was sold a 2004 MODEL but the tag indicates it is a 2003 MODEL. Just because the engine is new, that does not make it a current year MODEL just because it hasn't been run. This is exactly why I have a problem with Yamaha over the no more model year designation. In my view, manufacturers who are doing this need to drop the Model year from any sale contract and indicate that the engine is new, show the serial number and manufacturing date. What can be sold as a current model year may indeed be a several year old new engine. This tactic is for the benefit of the dealers and manufacturers -- not the buyer by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Well, it's now three years since you bought that rig. It has, apparently, served you well. I imagine that you got a really good price on that leftover boat at the dealer.

Was there a misrepresentation? I don't know, since I can't see the original paperwork. It could have been a misunderstanding, as well, on your part.

Since you've owned the boat now for three years, I can't see where you're going to have much standing to demand some sort of financial adjustment. I could be wrong about that, of course, but, unless you have some written documentation from the dealer, specifically stating that the engine was a 2004 model, I doubt you have any legal cause of action.

There's always another side of the story, and, if you choose to pursue the matter in any of the courts, that side will, no doubt, come out. Again, unless you have paperwork from the dealer stating the year model of the engine, I doubt you will prevail.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Evinrude (still uses model years) says about the same thing Silvertip does about the benefits of model year elimination:

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2702144560101354590HmPYyX

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I think we are being a little harsh here folks. In the auto industry for example, new models used to make their debute in the September/October timeframe. A 1997 model would actually appear on the sales floor in Sept/Oct of 1996. Nowadays they seem to appear at any time during the previous calendar year. I recently bought a new pontoon with a Suzuki outboard. I did check the tags and it was sold as a 2008 but was MANUFACTURED in October of 2007. No problem there as it is a 2008 MODEL. In this gents situation however, he was sold a 2004 MODEL but the tag indicates it is a 2003 MODEL. Just because the engine is new, that does not make it a current year MODEL just because it hasn't been run. This is exactly why I have a problem with Yamaha over the no more model year designation. In my view, manufacturers who are doing this need to drop the Model year from any sale contract and indicate that the engine is new, show the serial number and manufacturing date. What can be sold as a current model year may indeed be a several year old new engine. This tactic is for the benefit of the dealers and manufacturers -- not the buyer by any stretch of the imagination.

I have agree with Silvertip this time around, but then again I am a consumer, and am not being payed to support the dealers & manufacturers.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I can understand both sides of this issue. My 1998 Boat has a 1997 engine but I don't really care. Anyone who really does care should look us the serial numbers prior to purchasing. If you're really concerned about resale values, boats aren't exactly the best things to be buying. The motor being one year older than you thought is going to affect the resale value far less than the fact that Sea Boss has been cut from Brunswick's line and is no longer being made. They were made here in SC (Newberry) and that's the only reason I remembered reading about it...

 

[salty87]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Well, it's now three years since you bought that rig. It has, apparently, served you well. I imagine that you got a really good price on that leftover boat at the dealer.

Was there a misrepresentation? I don't know, since I can't see the original paperwork. It could have been a misunderstanding, as well, on your part.

Since you've owned the boat now for three years, I can't see where you're going to have much standing to demand some sort of financial adjustment. I could be wrong about that, of course, but, unless you have some written documentation from the dealer, specifically stating that the engine was a 2004 model, I doubt you have any legal cause of action.

There's always another side of the story, and, if you choose to pursue the matter in any of the courts, that side will, no doubt, come out. Again, unless you have paperwork from the dealer stating the year model of the engine, I doubt you will prevail.

i gotta agree with this. enjoy your engine.

 

[DRIFTER_016]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

It couldn't hurt to discuss this with the dealer that sold you the boat in the first place. It could have been an honest mistake on their part. Maybe they will offer to compesate you in some way.
If they brush you off or are not willing to listento you I would look at it as a lesson learned and go on with your life as $700 is not worth fighting over in court. But if you want to get back at the dealer take out an ad in the local paper detailing the incident and to let other potential buyers know of their disecption and treatment of you. (only if they are real jerks about it)