Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

[fishingdan]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

An objective opinion....I don't think the resale value of the boat is hurt as much as you may think. You bought the boat, motor and trailer package new as a from the dealers "previous year stock". You know the number of hours on the engine and you know the maintenance history of the engine and boat. These items are much more important, in my opinion, to the relative value of the boat. I don't think the one model year difference will have a signigicant impact. You bought the whole package new in 2004. Your warranty started on the day it was purchased and it may still be in effect and transferable to someone if you were to sell it.

If you want, pursue the no-cost alternatives mentioned above. Maybe the dealer will throw in some free or discounted labor on a future service.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I would suggest that you move on, you may well have slandered the dealer by posting here. 3 years for you to notice and then you blame the dealer? You better be 150% sure about your statements!

 

[angler53]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Be careful here. You are barking up a tree that will only drop grief and much aggravation on you. I know. Been there done that.
I purchased a 2007 package. Five weeks and fifteen hours of use the powerhead blew.
I learned that the motor was manufactured in 2005. My bill of sale said; new 2007 boat, new motor and new 2007 trailer.
The dealer told me they would overhaul the motor from stock parts. I blew a gasket. I called the motor manufacturer and they told me they would replace the powerhead under warranty if I was cleared of wrong doing.
In the mean time, I received a customer satisfaction survey form the motor mfg. I filled it out and sent it back the day before the mfg decided to replace the PH.
The mfg sent a factory tech to the boat and he did a great job on the repair, not to mention he gave me some cool perks to boot.
Well, the fact that I went over the dealers head and they didn't get the chance to do the work caused heartburn between them and myself.
Then, five months after the motor blew that survey found its way down to the dealer. They tried to get my warranties canceled. Refuses to do warranty work on both the boat or motor.
Sense then I pulled the boat 100 miles for warranty service and that got snuffed. I'm still waiting for a appointment with a factory tech. I have spoken with the closest dealer to me for warranty work on the boat and they have yet to call me back with an appointment to bring it over. They are a four hour drive away.
What I learned from all this is you don't go tugging on supermans cape. You play their game by their rules or they will stomp you like a bug.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

My theory, for what it's worth: I don't put much value on a warranty, doesn't make sense to me to pay up front for something that MIGHT go wrong. Prefer to pay to fix it only if I need to. Don't buy any vehicle new. Let somebody else eat the depreciation. Know what to look for and how to check it out, and buy it 3 or 4 years old with 100 hours on it in excellent condition just after the warranties all run out and the owner is scared of possible repair costs and wants something new with a warranty! If you're capable of doing the work yourself, there's nothing mechanical on a boat or car that can't be totally replaced or rebuilt for a couple of thousand dollars max.

I probably shouldn't be saying this, somebody needs to keep buying all those nice new toys so I can afford them in a few years!!!

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I certainly understand the feeling of wrong-doing here and would definitely bring it up to the dealer. Because so much time has gone by the chances of much tangible reward for your efforts is probably small unless the dealer takes responsibility and tries to make it up in other ways (discounts on new gear, etc.).

I've felt your pain to a lesser degree. About ten years ago I bought a 25 horse Merc from a classified ad in a boating mag. It turned out to be two years older than he advertised it as being. I only discovered this when I went to order a new decal set from the serial number and the factory parts people set me straight.

Fortunately only a week had gone by and I told the guy I was taking his fraudulent ad straight to the cops unless he came for his motor refund in hand by the next weekend. He laughed at me and wished me luck getting the cops to care but showed with the money all the same.

Getting all my cash back almost made me feel bad for not pointing out the fact I had snapped the gear selector off by accident the day before moving it out of my trunk into the garage. Almost...

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

what does the bill of sale say on it. It should have the model and serial # on it, along with boat and trailer ID. that's what you bought. Quit whining, and get on with you life, and pay more attention next time. the judge is going to go by the model and serial number, nothing else. you are wasting your time.

Retail sales contract and all other paperwork list the motor as a 2004 Johnson 150 outboard, and then they list the serial number. I am loving some of the rude and snappy responses....

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Well, it's now three years since you bought that rig. It has, apparently, served you well. I imagine that you got a really good price on that leftover boat at the dealer.

Was there a misrepresentation? I don't know, since I can't see the original paperwork. It could have been a misunderstanding, as well, on your part.

Since you've owned the boat now for three years, I can't see where you're going to have much standing to demand some sort of financial adjustment. I could be wrong about that, of course, but, unless you have some written documentation from the dealer, specifically stating that the engine was a 2004 model, I doubt you have any legal cause of action.

There's always another side of the story, and, if you choose to pursue the matter in any of the courts, that side will, no doubt, come out. Again, unless you have paperwork from the dealer stating the year model of the engine, I doubt you will prevail.

Verbatim from the retail sales contract:

New 2004 Seaboss Bay 19 center console (boat hin# is here)
New 2004 Johnson 150 OB Serial #05034766
New 2004 Aluminum single axle trailer w/lights (trailer vin# is here)

I think the retail sales contract, drawn up and signed by the dealer is sufficient evidence that the dealer represented the boat, motor and trailer to be of a given model year and consequently, to be valued accordingly. They specifically list the motor by year (2004), manufacturer (Johnson) and serial number (05034766). Yes, we misunderstood the motors details....We misunderstood due to being misled and misinformed by the dealer. I am not saying that the dealer intentionally did this, however that does not change the facts surrounding what they actually sold us.

 

[TheWoodCrafter]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Do you know when the motor was manufactured?
If it was December, does that make it a 2003 model?
When does Johnson change model years?
Does Johnson even change model years?
Why do you think it is not a 2004 model? Because the parts guy said it was manufactured in 2003?

If it was manufactured in the 4th quarter of 2003 and if it had 0 hours when purchased I think you are picking fly stuff out of the pepper.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I would suggest that you move on, you may well have slandered the dealer by posting here. 3 years for you to notice and then you blame the dealer? You better be 150% sure about your statements!

Oh come on now..there is no slander on my behalf. I am stating pure facts. The dealer led us to believe we purchased a 2004 unit at the 2004 price...except that it was actually a 2003 unit...and you want to toss the word slander? How about misrepresentation? How about deception? How about fraud? Any or all of these "could" apply based on the fact that they sold us a 2003 unit under the guise that it was a newer model unit.

I'm not 150% sure of my statements...but I am 100% sure...I have all the paperwork to back up my side. Here is how certain I am....

The dealer, Bob Hughes Boats in Miami Florida, sold us a 2003 Johnson 150 outboard motor claiming it was a 2004 model. Consequently, we were charged more for a motor than what it was actually valued at. The motor was in reality, already 2 years old when we purchased it.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I certainly understand the feeling of wrong-doing here and would definitely bring it up to the dealer. Because so much time has gone by the chances of much tangible reward for your efforts is probably small unless the dealer takes responsibility and tries to make it up in other ways (discounts on new gear, etc.).

Sincerely, I don't think I'll get any satisfaction regarding this matter. The local dealer closed and if I wanted service from them I'd have to haul my boat 40 to 45 minutes to get it to them, not really worth my time. I more than anything was looking for thoughts on the matter, comments....I considered writing a letter to the owners who have a good customer service reputation...

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Do you know when the motor was manufactured?
If it was December, does that make it a 2003 model?
When does Johnson change model years?
Does Johnson even change model years?
Why do you think it is not a 2004 model? Because the parts guy said it was manufactured in 2003?

If it was manufactured in the 4th quarter of 2003 and if it had 0 hours when purchased I think you are picking fly stuff out of the pepper.

Not really sure when it was manufactured. The determination that it's an actual 2003 model is being made by the actual motor model designation and the serial number. The J150PXSTM is a 2003 year unit, and that is what my motor is. There is a small tag/decal on the motor which has that PXSTM designation.

The 2003 and 2004 Johnson 150s that I have seen appear identical, but they carry a different "model number" which tells you what year model engine they are. Like I've said, I/we are happy with the motor, haven't had any problems.

Just not happy that while considering selling the boat now, three different potential buyers have tried to talk the price down between $1000 to $1600 citing the "five year old engine" as justification.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

Oh come on now..there is no slander on my behalf. I am stating pure facts. The dealer led us to believe we purchased a 2004 unit at the 2004 price...except that it was actually a 2003 unit...and you want to toss the word slander? How about misrepresentation? How about deception? How about fraud? Any or all of these "could" apply based on the fact that they sold us a 2003 unit under the guise that it was a newer model unit.

I'm not 150% sure of my statements...but I am 100% sure...I have all the paperwork to back up my side. Here is how certain I am....

The dealer, Bob Hughes Boats in Miami Florida, sold us a 2003 Johnson 150 outboard motor claiming it was a 2004 model. Consequently, we were charged more for a motor than what it was actually valued at. The motor was in reality, already 2 years old when we purchased it.

Ok tough guy, I told you to get an attorney and sue the hell out of him, sounds like he deserves whatever you can dish out. I would start at about $250 million and settle in the $100 million area. For that amount of money it will be worth spending the next 5 years of your life making the situation right and proving your point.

FWIW, you had not stated what the sales contract said when I posted my response.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

“In mid 2005, we purchased a new 2004 Sea Boss 19ft bay boat. We got the whole package, boat, motor and trailer. The boat came equipped with a 2004Johnson 150 as well as with a 2004 aluminum trailer.”

...

“All of the paperwork such as the sales contract, receipts etc. show the motor to be a 2004 model.”

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This information was in the very first post in this thread, for all of us to read if we wanted, but some of us just wanted to bully a new member of iboats forum who asked a legitimate question about a legitimate concern.

It is this kind of behavior that will scare many new and old users alike from every posting in this forum with such questions.

It was not the young man that mentioned getting an attorney in the first place it was other posters, to repeatably dog-pile him with such comments is uncalled for.

Sometimes this place is like a kindergarten on a bad day.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

People put this stuff out there and then they only want to hear what they want to hear! People just want to ignore the truth because it might hurt someone's feelings, well that does not mean it is not the truth! He bought a boat that he feels was misrepresented to him and 3 years later he somehow comes to believe that what he got and what he thinks he got are 2 different things. I don't know why it took this long for him to figure this out and I don't really care either, in fact I don't really care about this whole situation. But, people need to hear the truth and if they can't handle it, well as they say, ignorance is bliss.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

He bought a boat that he feels was misrepresented to him and 3 years later he somehow comes to believe that what he got and what he thinks he got are 2 different things. I don't know why it took this long for him to figure this out and I don't really care either, in fact I don't really care about this whole situation. But, people need to hear the truth and if they can't handle it, well as they say, ignorance is bliss.

If you don't care, then shut your trap and quit posting on this thread. Stop using up the bandwidth so that other members with actual constructive comments can chime in.

For you to say that you dont know why it took this long for me to figure out the deception simply tells me you don't know how to read. I think I was pretty clear as to how we came to figure out the difference in model years. I did not say the boat was misrepresented in any of my posts, so again, take a moment and read before you comment.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

FWIW, you had not stated what the sales contract said when I posted my response.

Your comment is worthless. You don't read so well. Go back and review the very first post of this thread.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I read the posts, sorry it took you sooooooo long to figure out your mistake. If you have a legal problem take it to an attorney, not to a bunch of sea lawyers that have no idea about these situations. YOU are the one who took exception to the advice you were given and then whined like my 4 year old when you didn't like what people had to say. The nerve of some people!

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: My chosen course of action on the matter

Re: My chosen course of action on the matter

I figured I'd try and see how the dealership would respond to this situation. Wrote a nicely worded, polite and to the point letter detailing the matter and sent it out to them today. I included a letter I received from Bombardier/Johnson whereupon they clarify that our motor is in fact a 2003 model year engine. I didn't ask for anything in the letter, but I was clear at how disturbed and dissapointed I was upon learning of the conflicting information, in contrast to the excellent reputation I knew they carried.

I'll update this if anything comes of it.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

I read the posts, sorry it took you sooooooo long to figure out your mistake.

With your previous post, it's far from clear that you took the time to read mine. What was it you said, that I had not stated the info concerning the sales contract? No, I don't think you had read the post.

Why don't you go shine the ships bell and keep yourself busy. You have nothing to offer this thread.

 

[oceansbreeze]

Re: Mislead on boat purchase, advice?

if you were looking to sell, why not just play dumb. photocopy your original receipt, blank out the original purchase price (or not) and show it to prospective buyers? you say "well, I bought this all brand new in 2005..... and my everything is 2004 according to the dealer" don't tell them it's 2003. if it ever came back to you from the new buyer, you say "well, i didn't know, this is what the dealer sold me....."

then if they want to take legal action...against you, you again, play dumb, as you only know what you bought based on the sales receipt, you're not einstein, etc."

anyways, thats what I would have suggested, and save the headaches, then the resale value wouldn't have mattered so much...


I think meanwhile, you have taken the best approach, writing a letter to the dealer, that should have been your first approach originally......and after ruling out all possible solutions with him, sought other avenues...

It would be like buying a meal at mcdonalds that was completely wrong, only discovered by the time you got home, but eat it anyway, then go on a forum and ask what to do, instead of contacting mcdonalds directly to inform them of the matter and asked their policy on the matter