Proper safety gear.

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Proper safety gear.

In Massachusetts there is no law that a PFD has to be worn if over 12 years old, Under 12 you must wear one at all times while on the vessel.

If in a canoe from Sept. 15th to May 15th you must wear a PFD while canoeing. This is a cold water rule, apparently the state does not realize that the water is just as cold in any vessel.

And just recently passed a rule that if you are in a boat 18 feet or less you need a PFD.

Same as here. But they state vest must be in boat and accessible. But the 12 year old is "under way"

 

[45Auto]

Re: Proper safety gear.

In Massachusetts there is no law that a PFD has to be worn if over 12 years old, Under 12 you must wear one at all times while on the vessel.

So if a kid under 12 wants to swim from an anchored boat, they have to put on a PFD every time they climb back on the boat, then take it off when they go in the water to swim?

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Proper safety gear.

Unfortunately common sense is not very common.

I have been saying that for as long as I can remember.

So if a kid under 12 wants to swim from an anchored boat, they have to put on a PFD every time they climb back on the boat, then take it off when they go in the water to swim?

Anyone who lets a kid swim without a PFD in water with any current or that isn't as clear as a swimming pool is asking for trouble. What if they slip under or get cramped up, just for a minute? How would you ever live with yourself if you couldn't find them? I'm talking (maybe 13-15 y/o old & under, depending on ability). I'm not going to make an 18 y/o wear a PFD while swimming, although I SHOULD!!

Regarding PFD and the mistakes on counting, how can anyone miscount to 4? If you had 67 people on you boat, I could understand missing 1. You have 4 and missed one? I would issue the ticket, too. Although it was an expensive lesson, I bet you never miscount again.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Proper safety gear.

'Before getting under way' being, leaving shore, or while motoring? To be honest, I have no clue what the law is regarding that, but I live on my boat. Im sorry, but a PFD is NOT going to be part of my evening leisure attire.
Actually, in 3 years of ownership, I havent put one on yet. I can understand wearing one on a smaller boat (20ft or less?), but where's the cutoff?

Before getting underway means before leaving the dock or beach to me... that way you can run back to the truck if you forgot one.

I'm not sure where the cutoff would be for me either, like others have said it would be a common sense judgement.

I put on my inflatable PFD every time before cranking the engine on my 17' deep V, I also always wear my kill switch when underway, and I installed a permanant boarding ladder on the transom of my boat because of the high freeboard. I do a lot of fishing in the winter over 40-45*F water, for this I bought a very warm floatation suit that you'll never see me not wearing.

Some folks may say I'm anal... but I really don't want to lose my life while fishing or boating. I took risks in my younger days, but I'd rather be safe than sorry now.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Proper safety gear.

@ $162, I bet the count will be right from now on. 50 years ago I got a ticket for "engaging in a speed contest", so far I haven't gotten another ticket for that infraction

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Proper safety gear.

So if a kid under 12 wants to swim from an anchored boat, they have to put on a PFD every time they climb back on the boat, then take it off when they go in the water to swim?

Not correct. They would be 100% within the law to keep it on....

 

[45Auto]

Re: Proper safety gear.

How many of you guys swim with your PFD's on ???

How about when they go off the rope swing or jumping from the banks, probably should be wearing a PFD then also you think? After all, the broken neck from the PFD shouldn't hurt for long!

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Proper safety gear.

How many of you guys swim with your PFD's on ???

How about when they go off the rope swing or diving from the cliffs, probably should be wearing a PFD then also you think? After all, a broken neck shouldn't hurt for long!

View attachment 101652

Simply amazing.....:facepalm:

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Proper safety gear.

How many of you guys swim with your PFD's on ???

How about when they go off the rope swing or jumping from the banks, probably should be wearing a PFD then also you think? After all, the broken neck from the PFD shouldn't hurt for long!

Been there done that... With no PFD.

To be honest.. I have them in the boat and never wear them. My wife is still kind of scared of boat and she has hers on before she enters the boat.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Proper safety gear.

My wife is still kind of scared of boat and she has hers on before she enters the boat.

Nothing wrong with that. My boat usually has at least twice as many PFD's as people on board (22' bowrider rated for 12 people - 8 ski vests and 2 four packs of cheap orange preservers on board at all times, usually no more than 7 or 8 people on board at once). Anyone who feels more comfortable wearing one is welcome to do so, but I'm not going to require anyone over 12 to wear one unless they want to or I feel that conditions have become unsafe.

Anyone who lets a kid swim without a PFD in water with any current or that isn't as clear as a swimming pool is asking for trouble. What if they slip under or get cramped up, just for a minute? How would you ever live with yourself if you couldn't find them?

Same way I'd live with myself if they died in a car accident (32 times more likely than drowning on the boat), or died when hit by a car while walking (13 times more likely than drowning on the boat), or died from falling off a piece of furniture (1.4 times more likely than drowning on the boat), or drowned in a swimming pool (1.2 times more likely than drowning on the boat), or drowned at the beach (2.4 times more likely than drowning on the boat), or died from hanging themself (12 times more likely than drowning on the boat), or died from intentionally poisoning themself (10 times more likely than drowning on the boat), or died from assault with a sharp object (4 times more likely than drowning on the boat), or died in a fire (7 times more likely than drowning on the boat), etc, etc, etc.

I prefer to concentrate my safety efforts in the areas where they will do the most good. Being anal about wearing PFD's is not one of them. No big deal if you feel otherwise, I'm not trying to get anyone to stop doing anything they feel is necessary. Just don't try to force your illogical actions on me.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Proper safety gear.

So if a kid under 12 wants to swim from an anchored boat, they have to put on a PFD every time they climb back on the boat, then take it off when they go in the water to swim?

In NC children are required to wear pfds ONLY when ENGINE is running and boat is moving. When using boat for swim platform no pfds are required

 

[mscher]

Re: Proper safety gear.

Originally Posted by Navigator_Victory

Generating revenue.....

Would you believe SAVING LIVES?? That is his job, bleep.

Then why a $168 fine? Couldn't the offender be "taught a lesson" for $40 or $50?

Maybe a warning since it's all about safety?

I'm seeing more and more law enforcment on the water and land. They usuually have their tickets book outs also.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Proper safety gear.

A lot of money has been tossed at law enforcement since 9/11. Safety enforcement is needed and good, but at what price liberty?

 

[mcgyver210]

Re: Proper safety gear.

Hm.... Interesting comments.

When I started driving seat belts were not required but I still wore them & required all passengers including my own mother to wear one because it was my car & I felt they were better than the alternative in most cases.

Now do I agree with anyone being required to wear one by LAW? NO as long as they assume all physical injury liability in any accident even if it isn't their fault.

Now as for my Boat I have over-killed as usual on all safety equipment which is just my nature. So far I haven't had any issue but anyone who rides in my boat must wear a PFD period with no age exceptions while underway.

Since I have this unusual rule I have put more dollars into multiple sized vest that are comfortable to wear & nothing is on my boat I wouldn't wear. Our latest guest let us know they appreciated having nice vest to wear ( they thought we would only have the orange universals) & didn't mind wearing them. We carry at least 15 USCG approved vests for our 21' boat. We also always wear our own vest & do get laughed at by some boaters but I was a life guard when I was younger & even with my back ground I could also have a problem if I was ejected & hit my head or worse.

I do believe most LEOs on land & water seem to be more about revenue producers than safety but I also agree with having some basics on board at all times. We just used our First AID Kit this weekend which another boater didn't have.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Proper safety gear.

I don't know about your area. But around here if you fall over board you have about 20minnets to find shore or a boat with a life vest on. If you try to swim for it you now have about 10 minuets.

The funny thing is you rarely ever hear of some one drowning from wearing a life vest but many who were not. It is kinda like the seat belt argument.

Now saying all that if I am on a 30footer I'm probably not going to put one on but if I am on a 14 footer probably.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Proper safety gear.

So if a kid under 12 wants to swim from an anchored boat, they have to put on a PFD every time they climb back on the boat, then take it off when they go in the water to swim?

Children under 12 should only be allowed to swim in water that isn't over their head without a PFD.

@ $162, I bet the count will be right from now on.

BINGO!

Then why a $168 fine? Couldn't the offender be "taught a lesson" for $40 or $50?

Maybe a warning since it's all about safety?

I'm seeing more and more law enforcment on the water and land. They usuually have their tickets book outs also.

If you're in compliance you have nothing to worry about, if not... it's your own fault and you should "man-up" and pay for your mistake(s).

I don't know about your area. But around here if you fall over board you have about 20minnets to find shore or a boat with a life vest on. If you try to swim for it you now have about 10 minuets.

The funny thing is you rarely ever hear of some one drowning from wearing a life vest but many who were not. It is kinda like the seat belt argument.

Now saying all that if I am on a 30footer I'm probably not going to put one on but if I am on a 14 footer probably.

90% of all drowning fatalities could have been prevented had the victim been wearing a PFD, that's a huge percentage!!!

How in the heck the other 10% would've still drowned I have no idea.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Proper safety gear.

Good statement.

According to the National Safety Council (http://www.nsc.org/Pages/Home.aspx):

Your lifetime odds of a boating related drowning are 1 in 7,683.

Drowning in a swimming pool is 1 in 6,314.

Drowning in natural water (non-boating related) is 1 in 3,154.

Do you wear your PFD in the pool or at the beach? You're more likely to drown at either of those places than on your boat.

Drowning in a bathtub is 1 in 10,449. Not much safer than boating. Good chance to save some more lives here with PFD's for everyone in the tub.

Intentional death by hanging, strangulation, and suffocation is 1 in 629.

You should be more than 10 times as worried about killing yourself by hanging as you are about wearing your life jacket. Stay away from ropes, neck ties, and in general any object taller than about 6 feet just in case.

A few more things more dangerous than drowning while boating for you to worry about:

Being killed in a car is 1 in 242. You're about 30 times more likely to die in the truck on the way to the ramp as you are on your boat. Maybe a crash helmet and a good suit of armor could help here.

Being killed as a pedestrian by a car is 1 in 610. More than 10 times more likely than boating drowning. Maybe that suit of armor again here?

Being killed in a fall is 1 in 269. Maybe you'd better lay in bed all day?

Unfortunately, death from a fall involving bed, chair, other furniture is 1 in 5,508, about 50% more likely than your boat drowning. Maybe lay on the ground instead?

Death from exposure to smoke, fire or flames is 1 in 1,060. Maybe wear nomex underware and carry a portable oxygen mask with you everywhere?

Intentional self-poisoning is 1 in 737. Probably be a good idea to sew your mouth shut.

Death from assault by a sharp object is 1 in 1,983. Carry a gun, that tends to repel the sharp object assaults. You're 3 times more likely to need your gun than you are your PFD.

Death from exposure to excessive natural cold is 1 in 4,825. Carry a portable heater all the time, or move to Hawaii.

The fact is that boating is a very safe activity. As dwco5051 says, PFD usuage should be dictated by common sense. Unfortunately common sense is not very common. Most people are unduly influenced by media and false assumptions rather than examining the facts and making their own rational decisions based on those facts.

This is precisely why I never wear a tie while driving, electing instead to tie it in the parking deck before entering the office building, and I've always insisted on showers and not baths. I have also found it much more expeditious to holster my 357 on my PFD in case of a knife attack. As for sewing one's mouth shut; I've advised more than one individual to do that very thing, but the potential for poisioning is rarely the reason.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Proper safety gear.

We have had 13 boat related drowning so far this year. Everyone one of them would be alive today if only they had worn a life jackets. These are not small boats. A 20? boat is considered small on these waters.

Two years ago next week we had to bury my 4 years old granddaughter who was drowning victim. Dismiss jacket use all you want. You opinion will change once you experiance what I did,.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Proper safety gear.

This is precisely why I never wear a tie while driving, electing instead to tie it in the parking deck before entering the office building, and I've always insisted on showers and not baths. I have also found it much more expeditious to holster my 357 on my PFD in case of a knife attack. As for sewing one's mouth shut; I've advised more than one individual to do that very thing, but the potential for poisioning is rarely the reason.

All of those are only slightly more dangerous than the perils of drawing completely erroneous conclusions from generic statistics....:facepalm:

Probably the most meaningful statistical conclusion to reach is that if you add ALL those probabilities together, they'll come out to a probability of 1:1...i.e. ~ none of us are getting out of this alive....

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Proper safety gear.

All of those are only slightly more dangerous than the perils of drawing completely erroneous conclusions from generic statistics....:facepalm:

Probably the most meaningful statistical conclusion to reach is that if you add ALL those probabilities together, they'll come out to a probability of 1:1...i.e. ~ none of us are getting out of this alive....

And some are just destined to go a little sooner and more spectacularly then others.