Savage Avalon

[HOOKED.UP]

Re: Savage Avalon

I really stuffed up there guys.
I had to walk down to my old Avalon to check out what you meant.
There are 3 drains in the very lowest section of my boat. 1 drains the enclosed floor. The other 2 drain the main hull.

In the splash well there is also a drain. (Standard procedure).

The splash well drain is brass or some such metal.
I agree with you, grind it off an punch it out. End of story, get rid of it.

Sorry to be very vague in my posts lately. I am suffering a very bad flu.

Yours.

Paul.

 

[dcr42t]

Re: Savage Avalon

Ok, i will get rid of the drain and see if that free's it up a bit. I was just expecting a bit more movement with it still in place.
But it does seem to be bogged/glassed up pretty well under the aluminium strip.
I will have another go at it this weekend.

 

[dcr42t]

Re: Savage Avalon

Ok i punched the drain out. It didnt free anything up unfortunately.

It looks like the whole back wall of the splashwell is glued very well to the transom. The splashwell is too thin to try and pry apart with a screwdriver etc from inside and under the splashwell. So im going to have to start cutting it off.

Im thinking about the chainsaw method. This will destroy the mold that sits directly under the aluminium strip, although its not in very good shape now anyway. But should free up the splashwell from the inside transom skin.

Opinions of the best method to use here most welcome.

 

[mark1961]

Re: Savage Avalon

Im no boatbuilder or glasser for that matter but......can you cut away only the inner part of the splashwell skin thats glued to the transom and construct a new one after you refit the cap?

Not sure about the chainsaw option but understand the concept .....hopefully someone who's tried it and lived to tell the story will chime in.

 

[HOOKED.UP]

Re: Savage Avalon

Hi DCR.

I would start by grinding off that top piece of glass, overlaying the ply on top of your transom. ( I am refering to last photo).
Also remove the lifting handles and any other hardware that may be attached.

Something thin and stiff, like a good quality paint scraper, may then be worked down between the layers of glass and the ply.
Usually once the ply and glass start to seperate, it just requires some patience to keep the process going, till you get int the rotten wood, which will come away fairly easily.

Paul.

 

[dcr42t]

Re: Savage Avalon

Thanks Paul, i will go and give that a go

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Savage Avalon

dcr,

Can you back off a bit with the camera on the inside and give us a bigger view of the transom under the splashwell, like laying down and shooting up into the corners and then along the top and bottom edges. and then to the same on the outside of the boat so we can see the 'Whole transom. I need a better perspective of what you are dealing with. I might have an idea for you.

 

[dcr42t]

Re: Savage Avalon

Wood, i was having trouble getting good photos under there with poor light. I was trying to show the blob of glue in that top pic.

But anyway, i have now got the cap off. I ground the top strip off as Paul said to do, and that gave access to get a scraper/screwdrivers down between splashwell and transom. But it still didnt want to let go without cracking the splashwell.
So i got the chainsaw and cut a strip down the centre of the transom, and then started levering between splashwell and transom, and the wood shifted back into the part i cut out if you know what i mean.

The wood didnt look too bad from the outside, but on the inside its wet and rotting, so im happy its getting done.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Savage Avalon

GREAT!!! Got that Puppy off!! Congrats!! Make SURE and use a respirator and goggles when your grinding that stuff. Fungus and dust is NASTY stuff and can make you VERY sick.

 

[HOOKED.UP]

Re: Savage Avalon

Well Done DCR.

It is a pity you had to chainsaw your transom, but the is a pretty easy fix, after everything is cleaned out.
ALL that wood has to go, so take the lifting handles off so you can get back to the glass.
You will also need to remove the seat on the other side of the boat.

WOOD, is correct, some broader photos would be of help.
Especially on this new forum layout.
I second the need for good dust masks.

I would also suggest at this time, to build a frame to keep the boat in it's correct shape. This will be important when you start putting her back together.

Paul.

 

[dcr42t]

Re: Savage Avalon

Yeah i bought a single filter rubber mask for the job. Would hate to breath this stuff in.

I went and bought a good chisel today, and a 40 and 60 grit flapper wheel and got stuck into it.
Do i have to grind back completely to the glass or can i leave some wood there. The glass is pretty thin across the back.

Also ive been wondering seeing as ive gone this far, is there any reason i should extend the transom height to suit my longshaft motor, or should i just bolt an aluminium bracket to it as it was previously? Too much mucking around? Ive noticed the later model avalons seem to have a taller transom.

Im pretty much at the stage where i need to buy some materials.
What type of wood do i need to buy for the stringer? Just ask for a piece of hardwood?
What thickness ply should i use for the floor? The original looked to be around 5-6mm thick.
The transom thickness measured around 35mm. Can i buy a sheet of exterior ply this thickness roughly, or do i need to double up some thinner sheets? I was going to try and get some from Bunnings. Im thinking this will have to be pretty spot on to fit up tight to the splashwell.

The frame to hold it square is the other thing im struggling with. I dont think the twist will affect me to much when putting the transom piece in, but it definately will when im doing the floor. Whats the simplest thing i can do to get around this without building a high tech frame? Could i get away with just a couple of tyres under each side to hold it level/square?

Thanks for your help fellas

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Savage Avalon

I would consdier making a Jack Plate for your Long shaft Out board. They look like this and work Great!!

For your stringers, I'd use exterior grade plywood just like you're gunna use for your transom. Nice job on your transom removal by the way.

 

[HOOKED.UP]

Re: Savage Avalon

Hi DCR.

Yes you need to get rid of all the old wood back to the glass.
If you are careful you won't go through the glass it is pretty hard stuff. You will probably need to hand sand in the corners, but that should not take too long. ( I hope).

I suggest you find a supplier of plywood in your area and check with them for sheet prices. A single sheet of 36mm would be pretty expensive. It would be cheaper to buy thinner sheets and epoxy them together I would think. That' certainly how it works out here in Tassie.
I don't know any thing about Bunnings ply. That is why I suggest you find a specialist supplier. Top quality exterior ply or marine ply would be my suggestion. A specialist supplier is always a better bet than the chain stores, I think.

Your new floor, I would go around 10 or 12 mm. Depending whether you are going to raise it a bit or not.

Stringer needs to be the best air dried timber you can find. Again I suggest you source a timber merchant and deal with a specialist.
The stringers ar not big so the cost for good quality won't be noticed.

Woodonglass, suggestion for a Jack Plate is fine.
But as you have the transom out and the top off, why not just build the new transom to the height you need.
That is what I always do on short shaft boats.
In my opinion, building the transom up, gives you that little extra protection from waves over the stern.

As for your cradle, you do need something a bit stiffer than tyres.
A couple of V shaped frames would be best. These can cost you nothing if you can get hold of a couple of old pallets and recycle the timber.
Remember, you will be getting in and out of your boat a lot, rigid support is very important.

Paul.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Savage Avalon

Uhhhmmmm, IF you modify your transom Don't FORGET you WILL have to MODIFY your Splashwell TOO!!! Your Top Cap that you removed will NOT fit the NEW modified transom. Just wanted you to be aware. And again, Here in the STATES, we make most of our stringers out of Exterior grade Plywood just like the stuff we use for the Transoms. If the stringers are thick then we just just the fiberglass resin and mat to laminate them together to acheive the thickness we need. We feel we get a superior product this way. You can do it either way, just wanted you to know.

 

[dcr42t]

Re: Savage Avalon

Ok i have ground the wood back a little more today until i reached the glass. I still have to remove the bungs and tidy up around the base.

Should i put a layer of csm over the back before i fit the new transom? Is that normal practice? In some places where i chiseled the wood off it pulled some glass with it.

Ive heard that bunnings exterior ply is fine for the job, especially if its sealed and coated with csm. Plenty strong enough. So im happy to use that.
Just need to see what thicknesses they have. Hopefully i can pick some sheets up next weekend.
And when i get a transom sheet cut, what do i glue it in with? Resin or sikaflex 292 marine adhesive? Or something else?

Maybe its best i just leave the transom height as is, and use a jack plate. It will save me having to somehow gelcoat the exterior up to the new height, and modify transom etc.

Anyway will have to leave it till next weekend now. Back to work.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Savage Avalon

Ok, here's how I recommend you make and install your transom. Use some cardboard to create a template of your transom. Transfer the template to your plywood. Laminate the plywood to the required thickness using 1.5 oz mat between the layers and MAKE SURE to wrap the edges. Cover the entire transom with 1.5 oz cloth and coat with resin. Mix up 1 1/2 qts of Thickened resin, we call it Peanut Butter here in the State. Use Resin, Cabosil and Chopped Fiberglass Fibers. Mix it to the consistency of Mayonaise or Peanut butter. Use the Minimum amount of hardener so it will NOT harden on you to fast. Get a Friend to Help you cuz you have to Move fast. Do a DRY RUN first so you will KNOW how everyting goes. Trowel it on to skin of the boat 1/4 " thick and on the transom 1/4" thick. Clamp in place. This is a Good Thread to show you how to do it. I helped this guy with his and showed him how to build some clamps to clamp it in.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=441929&page=6&highlight=parrisw

 

[dcr42t]

Re: Savage Avalon

The bunnings ply didnt look too good, so i went and saw a plywood supplier as Paul suggested. I got a sheet of 15mm and 12mm exterior ply. I needed a thickness of around 30mm for the cap to fit back on. Made my template, cut out with a jigsaw. Once laminated and rapped in 1.5ozcsm i have got close enough to 30mm. Just have to tidy up the edges.

Im using Vinyl ester resin as suggested by the fibreglass specialist. As well as the csm, he sold me some double biax 450g (16oz) which he said to use to tab the transom/stringer and to use as the final cover to put over the floor for a smoother finish.
To mix up the glue for the transom, and fillet, i have west system 403 microfibres. To fill the gaps around the floor i have talc powder.
Haven't used either of these yet so i dont know what to expect.

Pretty happy with how it went. I do have some small air bubbles under the resin. I dont know how you are meant to get it bubble free. It looked bubble free before it set.

I like the clamps Wood, but not sure if they will remove the slight bow i have in the transom. The outside edges are bowed toward the front of the boat. Tried to remove it when i laminated but still slightly bowed. Im wondering if i should clamp it with a couple 2x4s running horizontal.

And also, i want to put a layer of csm over the transom skin to seal off all the holes. The skin has some rough textured glass as you can see in the pics.
Should i mix up some resin + 403 and fill these before i glass it, or just heavily cover with resin before appying csm. Im worried about getting air bubbles/voids here

Thanks

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Savage Avalon

Nice Job on your transom build!!! I would drill a few 1/2" holes in the transom wood to allow the resin to sqeeze thru when clamping and this will keep you from having the possibility of air pockets. It will NOT compromise the strength or integrity of your fine transom. Use Thicken resin when applying the transom, and plenty of it, put packing tape over all of your holes and the resin should fill em in nicely. You can then redrill or sand and fair as you wish.

 

[HOOKED.UP]

Re: Savage Avalon

Hi DCR.

Your transom looks good mate.
If you are worried about air bubbles, just grind them out, fair the area off and re-glass the holes. Getting a bubble free finish takes some practise, so don't worry too much if you have to "touch up" the odd spot.

The clamps WOOD has suggested are the best way to clamp your transom in. Yes a couple of 4x2 s and some old chip board or similar will certainly help the job.
You will also need a couple of mates to help handle all those bits and pieces, when you do the job.

As WOOD says, the resin will come out of the existing holes, so tape them up, I use masking tape, or put some plastic over them.
Don't worry too much about the cosmetic appearance at this point, till you have your hull rebuilt.
Finishing and painting will be the last part of your rebuild.

Good Luck.

Paul.

 

[dcr42t]

Re: Savage Avalon

Thanks fellas,
Just a quick question.
I was just trying to clean up the corners a bit more and i discovered some soft wet fiberglass. Dug it out a bit and found myself down to the gelcoat.
What i want to know is, can i just leave this until i go to fit the transom, and fill it will the gluing mix, or should i put a small patch of glass on it? I didnt really want to glass it as it may affect the transom sitting flush.

Also i have the materials to make up my clamps. Can i use thickened resin to secure the nuts instead of epoxy. Will it hold them ok?