should pete rose make it into

[Ralph 123]

Re: should pete rose make it into

There are allegations by the former commish he also bet while a player. Don't wait for Pete to admit it though. That would take another 14 years.<br /><br />Character and integrity are part of eligibility. It is taken into consideration while voting. The issue with Rose is that he is ineligible due to being banned for life. The ban came because he was caught while an active member of the game.<br /><br />If the HOF is just about your numbers as a player than the rules should be changed.<br /><br />What people like LT did does not affect the integrity of Football. You aren't left wondering if he missed a tackle or dropped an interception because he has $10K on the outcome of the game.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Ralph, then in reality past inductees' stats and records could also be erroneous for the same reason no?

 

[POINTER94]

Re: should pete rose make it into

One more time....<br /><br />Gambling while a member of mlb forfeits you from being a member of the HOF. It doesn't matter how YOU FEEL about it. It is like one of two rules you have to follow. He didn't, end of story.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Both manager and executives are in the HOF. He broke the rules while PART of the fraternity. Not after he quit.

 

[Carphunter]

Re: should pete rose make it into

I believe drug use, in any form, should keep someone from the HOF, and banned from their sport. If drug use does not affect the integrity of the game, then what does, betting? L.T. has admitted to extensive drug use, among other things,............ and really, I was just using him as an example. There are countless others.<br />McEnroe on steroids, should all of his titles be stripped? I think so. He had an unfair advantage if that was the case. <br />If Pete was betting on baseball while playing, then I agree, he should not be there.<br />As I said before, he would be going to the HOF based on his playing days, and not his managing days. If he only bet while managing, it should not affect his HOF status. Probably no way to prove it though.<br /><br />Ralph, I will say that I don't know the rules that make someone eligible for the HOF, I am just stating an opinion.<br /><br />Pointer, the title of this thread is "Should Pete Rose make it into the house of GODS", ..........sounds as though crab-bait is asking for our opinions to me. So regardless of the rules, this is how I "feel" about it.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: should pete rose make it into

That is not enough!<br /><br />This guy underminded MLB at every level to secure a fraudulant image and placement into a Hall that is full of REAL hero's.<br /><br />This guy Lied to the media, tried to manipulate the players union with his lies, leveraged his popularity against Bart Giomani, Bud Selig and many others. He called them liars to cover for his lies.<br /><br />This shameful individual doesn't deserve anyone's concern or assistance. Where is his apology to all those whom he impuned with his celebrity? I would understand if he came clean when approached and sought help, but he tried to destroy others and continues to do so to provide himself an unwarranted place with a select group of people who sought to improve the game.<br /><br />This is just like watergate. It was not the action but the coverup that brought down a president. Pete needs to go back to whatever hole he crawled out from and try to make his mark on humanity in a way other than baseball. His legacy is cast in this arena.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: should pete rose make it into

The HOF is not part of MLB. It is a museum to honor the game and a place where the history of the game is recorded. Pete Rose is a part of that history like it or not. He belongs there because of his part in that history and his accomplishments on the field.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: should pete rose make it into

LF,<br /><br />If that were the case than why isn't he inducted in it already? There is an affiliation from my understanding. Can you clairify?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Drug use does not affect the integrity of the game - it affects the ability of the player to play either better or worse, but the affect is discernible to the world. You can't tell if a guy misses a ball, etc because he has money on the game. You can't tell if Rose managed games he had money on differently than those he didn't.<br /><br />Anyway, there are rules about gambling on baseball. They are written in stone and came about after baseball was almost destroyed when the Black Sox threw the world series. It's not like Rose didn't know about them and when he was caught he lied for 14 years. 14 years. He never said he was sorry until he wanted to sell a book.<br /><br />If you are going to bend the rules for Rose, why have any rules at all? Because he was a great player he should not have to follow rules he knows the league takes very seriously?<br /><br />Lastly, you can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.

 

[TexSkeeter150]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Like Ralph said. Shoeless Joe Jackson is not in the HOF because he was on team that was paid off. He was the only one who's stats were better in the World Series than the rest of the year. Because of this association he was banned for life and is still not in the HF. Pete Rose did bet on the game and Pete Rose should never be allowed in the HF or Baseball for that matter. It is hard not to compare betting with wife abuse, drinking, drugs etc....But Betting on the game messes with the fabric of the game and fair competition. Everyone knows the rules....Doing drugs? Fines and rehab...Beating your wife? Divorce, public embarrisment and lots of money spent.....Gamble on Baseball? Life ban. Whether the punishments fit the crime is not for us to decide. Rose knew the consequenses of his actions and he should live with them. The sad part of this is what he did give up. You know he would like a "Do-Over".<br /><br />To gain any respect, he should appologize for his actions and admit that he should never be apart of the HOF or baseball again. After all, you can't change Pete's greatnes in history, but he should never be enshrined. I think they should have his story in the HF, so all the young future baseball greats can see the tragedy of his decision.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Pointer, the HOF selection committee is not a part of MLB in any way that I am aware of. MLB and HOF tho affliliated are two separate organizations with separate set of rules.<br /><br />Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Carphunter]

Re: should pete rose make it into

As I said, I think Petes an idiot. I could care less about him or anything he accomplished.<br />Should that keep him out of the HOF, I think not.<br /><br />I don't know what MLB's requirements are for the HOF, but if he didn't bet on baseball while playing, then he should be there, IMO.<br /><br />His playing accomplishments can't be denied. He was, by all standards, a Hall of Fame player.<br /><br />Doesn't make him any less of an idiot in my book though.

 

[crazy charlie]

Re: should pete rose make it into

If the baseball hall of fame was just for players there is no doubt that Rose should be inducted.He was without a shadow of a doubt one of the best ever.As a coach he has turned out to be a complete embarassment to the sport.You can also ask if Mike Tyson will make it to the boxing hall of fame.He most certainly will,and I believe he is much more of an embarassment to his sport than Rose.The same case can be made for Lawrence Taylor and so on.I dont like Pete Rose anymore but do you think Babe Ruth bet on baseball.Duhh!!! Only when he was sober so he bet, but not too often.There are obviously much worse things than betting on sports.I bet Coby Bryant wishes he bet that young girl instead .Charlie

 

[Carphunter]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Sorry Ralph, but I do think drug use affects the integrity of the game. Look at the Ben Johnson scandal, that in my opinion, has just about ruined track and field. Drug use is more acceptable in todays society, which makes me sick.<br /><br />My pointing to other bad behavior was to prove a point........heck, you said it, can't bend the rules for Pete, so don't bend the rules for anyone. One person may think betting is the worst offense, while another may say drug use. Drug use is ok, but betting is not. Now we are classifying bad behavior? Thats silly. <br /><br />I will say again, if it can be proved he bet on baseball while playing, then he should not be in the hall of fame. He has admitted to betting while managing, so don't put him in the hall as a manager.<br /><br />........and lastly, as I have said again and again, I believe his playing days and managing days are seperate. Just my opinion.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: should pete rose make it into

The analogy with boxing would be should Tyson be inducted if he bet on his fights. Let's assume he did. Then you have to ask yourself, did he take a dive when he fought Buster Douglas (his first lost which happened during what was supposed to be a cakewalk)? <br /><br />What Tyson did affects Tyson, it does not affect all of boxing and people's confidence in the integrity of the sport.<br /><br />How does Coby's actions affet basketball as a whole? How does it affect your confidence in the result of a single game? That is the key difference.<br /><br />You can't justify bad behavior (really rewarding bad behavior) by pointing to other bad behavior or instances where people get away with it.<br /><br />Should all murderers be set free because some get away with it?

 

[LadyFish]

Re: should pete rose make it into

The rules for election by members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America include: "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played." The rules for voting by the veterans' committee similarly mention "integrity, sportsmanship, character."<br /><br />Now, does this means that voters are perfectly justified -- should they ever see Rose's name on the ballot, not to vote him in?<br /><br />Only if it includes his days as a manager. I agree with Crapy.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Carp,<br /><br />Good point. In individual sports it can affect the integrity of the sport. But let's not forget drugs are tested for and people are suspended and banned from sports all the time for drug use. As far as I know, there is no test to see if a guy is betting on the outcome so it is harder to detect and therefore the punishment (deterrent) is very severe to prevent it from happening.<br /><br />Because drugs can affect the integrity that means Rose should be given a pass and forgiven? I don't get it... The rusels are there. They have been there for a long time. They are unambiguous. He broke them and then lied about them for 14 years. But, we should forgive him because he put up good numbers?

 

[Carphunter]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Gosh LF, do you have to call me crapy!!!!

 

[POINTER94]

Re: should pete rose make it into

LF,<br /><br />I went looking and this is what I came up with. <br /><br />This is what I found on the HOF web site. Pete doesn't qualify IMHO. See #5<br /><br />Rules for Election to the Hall of Fame<br />Rules for Election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame by Members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America (BBWAA) <br />Rules for Election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame by Members of the Baseball Hall of Fame Committee on Baseball Veterans <br /><br />Rules for Election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame by Members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America (BBWAA)<br />1. Authorization — By authorization of the Board of Directors of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, Inc., the Baseball Writers' Association of America (BBWAA) is authorized to hold an election every year for the purpose of electing members to the National Baseball Hall of Fame from the ranks of retired baseball players.<br /><br />2. Electors — Only active and honorary members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, who have been active baseball writers for at least ten (10) years, shall be eligible to vote. They must have been active as baseball writers and members of the Association for a period beginning at least ten (10) years prior to the date of election in which they are voting.<br /><br />3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements: <br /><br />A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election. <br />Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A). <br />Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball. <br />In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first. <br />Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate. <br />4. Method of Election <br /><br />BBWAA Screening Committee — A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee. <br />An elector will vote for no more than ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted. <br />Any candidate receiving votes on seventy-five percent (75%) of the ballots cast shall be elected to membership in the National Baseball Hall of Fame. <br />5. Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.<br /><br />6. Automatic Elections — No automatic elections based on performances such as a batting average of .400 or more for one (1) year, pitching a perfect game or similar outstanding achievement shall be permitted.<br /><br />7. Time of Election — The duly authorized representatives of the BBWAA shall prepare, date and mail ballots to each elector no later than the 15th day of January in each year in which an election is held. The elector shall sign and return the completed ballot within twenty (20) days. The vote shall then be tabulated by the duly authorized representatives of the BBWAA.<br /><br />8. Certification of Election Results — The results of the election shall be certified by a representative of the Baseball Writers' Association of America and an officer of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, Inc. The results shall be transmitted to the Commissioner of Baseball. The BBWAA and National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, Inc. shall jointly release the results for publication.<br /><br />9. Amendments — The Board of Directors of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, Inc. reserves the right to revoke, alter or amend these rules at any time

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: should pete rose make it into

Does anybody really believe a degenerate gambler only bet when he stopped playing? Really? Like I said, there was an interview with the former Commish here the other day and he said Rose also bet while a player.<br /><br />It is all academic anyway. The rules clearly state that anybody on the banned list is ineligible for induction. I guess if he was inducted before he got caught he would stay in.