should pete rose make it into

LadyFish

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Re: should pete rose make it into

So......<br /><br />Its okay if he's dead? :eek:
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

No only if the evidence comes out after he is already in. Once you're banned you are ineligible
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

I Just found this and it summarizes my thoughts<br /><br />MORITZ: Pete Rose doesn’t get that it’s not about acting sorry <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> 01/14/2004 <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />Pete Rose doesn’t get it.<br />He thought it was going to be easy. After years of lying, he was finally coming clean about his sordid past. By doing so, he had to figure it was only a matter of time before he was forgiven.<br />But his much-publicized confession brought no forgiveness, only more questions and accusations.<br />“Now you’re coming clean, and it’s not good enough,” Rose told the Associated Press. “It’s not right. So how can I win? How can I win if people aren’t going to be fair with me?”<br />He doesn’t get it. <br />How can people be fair with him when he’s been unfair to people for 14 years?<br />When you screw up, you don’t get to decide when you are forgiven.<br />In a book published last week (and the requisite TV interview), Rose admitted to betting on baseball while managing the Cincinnati Reds — something he had denied for the 14 years since he was kicked out of baseball.<br />Rose’s confession was supposed to be the one act that would speed up his reinstatement to the game — which would allow him to be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.<br />This isn’t about whether Rose should be allowed into the Hall of Fame. You’ve heard and read enough about that. You can probably recite the arguments for or against in your sleep — Rose has more hits than anyone in the game’s history ... he broke one of the sport’s cardinal rules by betting on baseball games while managing. It’s one of those maddening debates where both sides make such valid points that they’re both right and wrong at the same time.<br />But this isn’t about Rose and the Hall of Fame.<br />It’s about Rose’s confession.<br />For one thing, as confessions go, it’s rather incomplete. Rose denies that he ever used inside information to make his bets and that he never bet from the team clubhouse. People who knew Rose say he did both on a regular basis.<br />In an outstanding column last Thursday, Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News wrote that while covering the Reds, he saw Rose a.) making notes in the book he used to catalog his bets and b.) call Detroit Tigers’ manager Sparky Anderson to ask him about his pitching — a curious move for a manager in the other league.<br />McCoy is one of the best and most respected reporters in our business ... who’s got no reason to lie.<br />More importantly, Rose shows no remorse or regret.<br />“I’m sure that I’m supposed to act all sorry or sad or guilty now that I’ve accepted that I’ve done something wrong,” Rose writes. “But you see, I’m just not built that way.”<br />Beautiful. The guy breaks one of the cardinal rules of sports — one, by the way, that’s prominently displayed in every major league clubhouse — and he’s just not built to be sorry.<br />Rose didn’t confess because he’s sorry. He didn’t come clean because he’s admitted he’s got a gambling problem and wants help. He didn’t confess because he feels he let down the game he professes to love so much.<br />He confessed because he thought there was something in it for him. He confessed because it made him money. He confessed because he thought it would be enough to get him reinstated, to get him into the Hall of Fame.<br />And now that it’s backfired on him, Rose feels like he’s being unfairly persecuted?<br />He just doesn’t get it.<br />He’s not supposed to “act all sorry” and stuff.<br />He’s supposed to be sorry.<br /><br />(Brian Moritz, a sports writer for The Times Herald, writes a weekly column for the Commentary Page. He can be reached at bmoritz@oleantimesherald.com.) <br /> <br /> http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=386&dept_id=444925&newsid=10807126&PAG=461&rfi=9
 

Carphunter

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Ralph, I believe where our disagreement lies is when the betting occured. I say unless it can be proven that it was done during his playing days, then he should be in the hall as a player only.<br /><br />When the betting occured is the key, I think. He absolutely should not be forgiven for what he has done, but to punish him for what he did as a player, when the betting occured as a manager, is not right either.<br /><br />I believe he has been punished, and will continue to be punished for what he has done.<br /><br />O.J. killed two people, and is the scum of the Earth, in my opinion, yet he was a great Football player. His records should not be erased from the record books. That much is history. Up until the point he murdered those two people, he was considered a great football player. He is obviously a murderer, and should have been executed, but he was not a murderer when he was rushing for all those yards. His records should stand, because that is part of Football history. (I use this as an example only)!<br /><br />Personally, there is not a punishment severe enough for O.J., but i'm sure thats another thread entirely. ;) <br /><br />See my point, if Pete bet after his playing days, then why try to erase him from the history books. Like it or not, he is a part of Baseball history.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Carp, nobody is trying to erase his accomplishments or records. They are and will always be part of baseball - like has been said, Pete Rose is all over the HOF. The only thing he does not qualify for is to be inducted as a member. To be inshrined. To have his bust displayed. That's all... He can't sign his his name with HOF at the end.
 

Carphunter

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Ok Ralph, I see. <br /><br />I don't think I have much more to add without just re-quoting myself.<br /><br />Good discussion though. I enjoy cival debates from time to time. ;) <br /><br />Ralph, i'll let you start the O.J. thread, i'm not touching that one. :D
 

LadyFish

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Re: should pete rose make it into

I agree with Carpy except, "it ain't over till its over". ;)
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Ok, I think I have a different way to frame this. Should Rose be allowed to manage or coach again? If you say no, then he can't be allowed in the HOF. In order to go in to the HOF he has to be reinstated. Once he is reinstated he can be an active member of baseball again and some team will hire him.<br /><br />Edit<br />One last thing. How selfish and disrespectful to release his book and make his confession on the day of this years inductions. It totally took away from the celebration of 2 great players. I have grown to dislike pro baseball greatly - it is filled with selfish, whinny jerks.
 

crab bait

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Re: should pete rose make it into

HOLEY MOLEY..fresh post an in 6 hours over 50 replies.. holey moley.. it's gotta be a record.. <br /><br />wanted to post here ,, but couldn't read 'em all .. i'll get back to it later on..<br /><br />but yes,, there is a rule.. that no matter ,,no how is he to ever be allowed in.. <br /><br />that bein' said.. if they were to make a onetime only 'pete rose' exception rule,,, it would sit well with me...<br /><br />bottom line... he's the best in modern times...
 

Homerr

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Re: should pete rose make it into

I totally despise sports, and hate to watch them anymore. They all make WAY too much money, and make terrible role models for our kids. You could once look up to them, but not anymore.<br />Don't get me wrong... There are some very talented people playing sports, but when they make more money than someone who saves lives on a daily basis (like a surgeon)... Something is seriously wrong with that picture!<br /><br />Anyhow... Back to the subject:<br /><br />Judge Pete by his abilities, and not his gambling habits. I mean c'mon..who really gives a rip about what he gambled on? So what!<br /><br />Look at all the other pro sports players you hear about getting away with all kinds of crime?<br />Drugs this...rape that... You don't see it affecting them much do you?<br />This is just another media witch hunt. They absolutely love it when a successful person makes a mistake. Then they crucify them.<br />(Michael Jackson excluded of course...he can burn in hell... imo)<br /><br />Pete Rose is a ball player, and (obviously) not a gambler.<br /><br />Put him in the Hall OF Fame for Baseball.<br />Put him in the Hall of SHAME for gambling! :) <br /><br />Of course... This is just my opinion... I can't stand sports, and honestly couldn't tell you the difference between a sports player and a pop-tart! (One in the same I think :D )<br /><br />H.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

H,<br /><br />I think if you read say the last 10 or so posts the reason for and against are clearly laid out. There are lots of people who care for very good reasons on both sides of the issue.<br /><br />The truth is, only one opinion really counts, and that belongs to the Commish. He has to reinstate Rose before he can even be voted upon. If Rose is ever reinstated he become instantly eligible to work for any time that wishes to hire him.
 

kev_alaska

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Was around professional baseball some earlier in my life. (Not me, my father was a semipro with the Cardinals organization and later as a coach on several levels).<br /><br />Brought up in complete awe of the era of the Big Red Machine and the people who make it bigger than life. Pete Rose was who every father pointed to when his kid was discouraged or not giving everything he had. He worked harder than everyone else put together to get to the very top of the game. <br /><br />Baseball is not just about stats. Baseball is America's pasttime because of the sportmanship and teamwork that it teaches. No one, no matter how talented or how hard they work can win a baseball game without the other members of the team. You see very few World Series rings on the fingers of some of the greatest players in the world because the team they played on were not up to par. Or because in pursuit of the stats that make them great, the star hurt the effort. <br /><br />Technically section 5 and the last sentence of section 3 of the rules for the HOF are enough. <br /><br />Pete Rose was one of the best baseball players ever. And one of the biggest violators of the basic spirit of Baseball. The first does not cancel out the second. No hall of fame for Pete.
 

crab bait

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Re: should pete rose make it into

i wonder what baseball history/ H O F in the future will look like if he's not in there... <br /><br />will it hurt baseball or will pete just become forgotten... <br /><br />an is it a good thing or bad thing...??<br /><br />if he's not HOF,,, kinda think there will be a big 'ole astrick/void somewhere in the hall...
 

snapperbait

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Re: should pete rose make it into

NO! Pete Rose is the absolute biggest A-HOLE I ever had the mis-fortune of meeting... <br /><br />Guys a scum bag.. Special place in hell for him for sure..
 

JB

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Re: should pete rose make it into

YES! Charlie Hustle was one of the greatest ever BASEBALL PLAYERS.<br /><br />What he was/is as a human being should be irrelevant. There are plenty of scumbag jerks in there. They deserve his company.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Ok then, let's just reinstate him and let the voters vote. We might as well do away with the rule that forbids those involved with baseball from betting on games since it will be meaningless if not enforced. When kids are touring the hall we can say, "yup there is Charlie Hustle. The lesson to learn from him is, if you are good enough, the rules won't apply to you. You can undermine the very integrity of the game.Break the one cardinal rule and you can lie about it for 14 years and it won't matter one bit"<br /><br />man if that doesn't encapsulate a major problem with this country, the complete erosion of personal responsibility and holding people accountable for their actions, nothing does.
 

ebbtide176

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Re: should pete rose make it into

RS, i just wish for you, that sports will be able to continue with more integrity than the rest of the entertainment world... ;)
 

crab bait

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Re: should pete rose make it into

i havta agree,RALPH..<br /><br />why ja havta ta doit PETE..!! why ja havta doit..!! ( arrogant aiswhole )<br /><br />so SNAPPER ,,, would that be a yes or no to the H O F... ;) <br /> ;) i
 
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