Speedometer question

Mr.Stuart

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 18, 2007
Messages
701
I want to get a speedometer for my little 12-foot boat; it's got a 10 horse Evinrude, and tops out at about 20 MPH (according to the GPS)

The lowest reading speedometers that I've seen go from 5 to 35 MPH, I think their for Pontoon boats.

I'd like to find something that reads from 0 to 25 or 30 at most, the 35 MPH speedo's has the 20 MPH reading at the lower end of the scale, and to me, it seems like the needle would barely move when the boats cruising between 15 to 20 MPH, I'd like one where the 15 to 20 MPH reading would be about mid scale on the speedo.

Call me a geek for wanting such a thing, but does anyone make anything like that? I've done some searching and haven’t found anything, and had thought of maybe going digital, but don't know if the digital speedo's work off a peto tube or what.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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51,019
Re: Speedometer question

get a gps, the speedo works on air pressure, provided by water pressure on the pitot.
 

thrasher

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May 23, 2007
Messages
443
Re: Speedometer question

You can also get small electronic digital speedo's that have a small paddlewheel that you mount on the transom (but then you have to run wires around the boat and even drill a hole in the transom). I would think a GPS would be simpler and more usefull, I hate making holes in my boat. The paddle wheel type of speedo is used on the small Ski Doo boats.

Gary
 

Nandy

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Apr 10, 2004
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2,145
Re: Speedometer question

I support the GPS idea better than the speedometer. My speedometer is up to 85 and my motor wont push that hull faster than 27 so I dont get a "reliable" reading at low mph. Howerver, I never seen one smaller than 35. Which of course, it dont means they dont exists.
GPS are way more versatile and you will get more if you want to do the investement.
 

Mr.Stuart

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 18, 2007
Messages
701
Re: Speedometer question

I support the GPS idea better than the speedometer. My speedometer is up to 85 and my motor wont push that hull faster than 27 so I dont get a "reliable" reading at low mph. Howerver, I never seen one smaller than 35. Which of course, it dont means they dont exists.
GPS are way more versatile and you will get more if you want to do the investement.

I've got a couple of GPS's, I use them every time I go out.

I should probably explain myself a little better here, see, I got this geek side, that's the side of me that thinks gauges are ..well, cool. I don't need one, and most people wouldn't even bother putting one in a little 12 foot row boat ....but ....I'm a geek, and I want to put one in my boat, TD knows me well enough by now from my other posts in other areas of the board, I'm sure he's got me figured out. I'm working on putting together a little 12 foot row boat like no other .....I'll leave it at that for now.:D

now, about that speedometer, can anyone tell me how well those digital ones work?
 

SFT2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
77
Re: Speedometer question

do those work off a GPS? I've never seen anything quite like that before, there is one on that page that looks like it migth work, in at the very bottm of the page.

If I understand right you can get them as a standalone unit with an internal GPS or as a gauge that plugs into a GPS with NMEA output.
 

Mr.Stuart

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 18, 2007
Messages
701
Re: Speedometer question

expensive toy for a budget boat.

yeah, that might be a little out of my budget, but it's ok to dream ...
I do have a GPS I think it has a NEMA output (Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx), I just need to stick to one of the cheaper peto type speedo's

I did see a really old one on ebay about a week ago that went up to 25 MPH, but they wanted a lot of money for it, and it was pretty beat up looking
 

SFT2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
77
Re: Speedometer question

yeah, that might be a little out of my budget, but it's ok to dream ...
I do have a GPS I think it has a NEMA output (Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx), I just need to stick to one of the cheaper peto type speedo's

I did see a really old one on ebay about a week ago that went up to 25 MPH, but they wanted a lot of money for it, and it was pretty beat up looking

I don't know how much you know about the more technical geeky things, but I was thinking (this isn't usually a good thing) about it and had a thought. If you have a handheld GPS that outputs NMEA (most do) and know how to make a microcontroller do what you want it to, you could concievably build it yourself. It's a little beyond my current level of geekdom (mostly because I'm on painkillers and haven't messed with C++ in a couple of years), but now I'm interested and might have to make this work. I just connected to my eMap with Hyperterminal and here's one frame:

$GPRMC,233646,V,3024.7621,N,09534.2243,W,0.0,0.0,201007,3.9,E,S*0F
$GPRMB,V,,,,,,,,,,,,A,S*0E
$GPGGA,233646,3024.7621,N,09534.2243,W,8,09,2.0,95.7,M,-24.0,M,,*4F
$GPGSA,A,3,02,04,05,09,10,12,17,28,30,,,,3.6,2.0,3.0*31
$GPGSV,3,1,09,02,72,293,50,04,54,031,48,05,23,317,42,09,24,251,42*7B
$GPGSV,3,2,09,10,25,179,43,12,41,316,46,17,27,082,44,28,07,144,36*7F
$GPGSV,3,3,09,30,07,321,36*41
$GPGLL,3024.7621,N,09534.2243,W,233646,V,S*5D
$GPBOD,,T,,M,,*47
$PGRME,15.0,M,22.5,M,27.0,M*1A
$PGRMZ,314,f,3*1D
$PGRMM,WGS 84*06
$GPRTE,1,1,c,*37

If you look close at all that apparent randomness you'll see some interesting things like lat/long coordinates, map datum, and other mostly useless (for this discussion) stuff. What's of interest here is this:

$GPRMC,233646,V,3024.7621,N,09534.2243,W,0.0,0.0,201007,3.9,E,S*0F

In English:

23:36:46 UTC (clock isn't right since the GPS isn't actually seeing satellites in here)
Status= Void (dunno what that means)
Latitude (3024.7621 N)
Longitude (09534.2243 W)
Groundspeed in knots
Track angle in degrees
Date (20th of October, '07. I've been using my other GPSes more lately)
Magnetic variation (3.9 deg E)
GPS Mode= S (simulator, since I'm inside)
And everything after the * is checksum data

So, very basically, we'd just need to write some code that reads the first part of each sentence, waiting for $GPRMC, then parse that line by commas and write the stuff between the 7th and 8th commas into a variable and wait for the next $GPRMC. The next function would convert that variable to MPH (or KPH, or leave it knots if you like), and format it for whatever display device you want. Personally I think I want a 2 digit (0-99) 7 segment LED array arranged upside down so it will look right when it's reflection is seen in the windshield.

But that's all my brain can handle for tonight. My wife thinks I'm nuts for sitting here with a GPS stuck to the monitor and a bunch of strange numbers and letters scrolling down a window. I'll mess with it more when my brain wakes up ;)

Oh yeah, one other thing I'll add mostly so I remember to look into it more tomorrow. There's route data in there, too, which could be fed into an autopilot.

Ok, more more other thing. I'm pretty sure the GPS mice, at least the old serial port versions, just spit out the same NMEA sentences. If so, one could be plugged in instead of a handheld with the same results.

ETA- Duh, forgot one of the things I had planned to say before writing a book. Pitot systems work on pressure differentials. The lower the range of differential pressures, the less accurate they are. It's a resolution issue, basically.
 
Last edited:

Mr.Stuart

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
701
Re: Speedometer question

I don't know how much you know about the more technical geeky things, but I was thinking (this isn't usually a good thing) about it and had a thought. If you have a handheld GPS that outputs NMEA (most do) and know how to make a microcontroller do what you want it to, you could concievably build it yourself. It's a little beyond my current level of geekdom (mostly because I'm on painkillers and haven't messed with C++ in a couple of years), but now I'm interested and might have to make this work. I just connected to my eMap with Hyperterminal and here's one frame:

$GPRMC,233646,V,3024.7621,N,09534.2243,W,0.0,0.0,201007,3.9,E,S*0F
$GPRMB,V,,,,,,,,,,,,A,S*0E
$GPGGA,233646,3024.7621,N,09534.2243,W,8,09,2.0,95.7,M,-24.0,M,,*4F
$GPGSA,A,3,02,04,05,09,10,12,17,28,30,,,,3.6,2.0,3.0*31
$GPGSV,3,1,09,02,72,293,50,04,54,031,48,05,23,317,42,09,24,251,42*7B
$GPGSV,3,2,09,10,25,179,43,12,41,316,46,17,27,082,44,28,07,144,36*7F
$GPGSV,3,3,09,30,07,321,36*41
$GPGLL,3024.7621,N,09534.2243,W,233646,V,S*5D
$GPBOD,,T,,M,,*47
$PGRME,15.0,M,22.5,M,27.0,M*1A
$PGRMZ,314,f,3*1D
$PGRMM,WGS 84*06
$GPRTE,1,1,c,*37

If you look close at all that apparent randomness you'll see some interesting things like lat/long coordinates, map datum, and other mostly useless (for this discussion) stuff. What's of interest here is this:

$GPRMC,233646,V,3024.7621,N,09534.2243,W,0.0,0.0,201007,3.9,E,S*0F

In English:

23:36:46 UTC (clock isn't right since the GPS isn't actually seeing satellites in here)
Status= Void (dunno what that means)
Latitude (3024.7621 N)
Longitude (09534.2243 W)
Groundspeed in knots
Track angle in degrees
Date (20th of October, '07. I've been using my other GPSes more lately)
Magnetic variation (3.9 deg E)
GPS Mode= S (simulator, since I'm inside)
And everything after the * is checksum data

So, very basically, we'd just need to write some code that reads the first part of each sentence, waiting for $GPRMC, then parse that line by commas and write the stuff between the 7th and 8th commas into a variable and wait for the next $GPRMC. The next function would convert that variable to MPH (or KPH, or leave it knots if you like), and format it for whatever display device you want. Personally I think I want a 2 digit (0-99) 7 segment LED array arranged upside down so it will look right when it's reflection is seen in the windshield.

But that's all my brain can handle for tonight. My wife thinks I'm nuts for sitting here with a GPS stuck to the monitor and a bunch of strange numbers and letters scrolling down a window. I'll mess with it more when my brain wakes up ;)

Oh yeah, one other thing I'll add mostly so I remember to look into it more tomorrow. There's route data in there, too, which could be fed into an autopilot.

Ok, more more other thing. I'm pretty sure the GPS mice, at least the old serial port versions, just spit out the same NMEA sentences. If so, one could be plugged in instead of a handheld with the same results.

ETA- Duh, forgot one of the things I had planned to say before writing a book. Pitot systems work on pressure differentials. The lower the range of differential pressures, the less accurate they are. It's a resolution issue, basically.

Huh? ....

ok, I thought I was a geek, but you take the cake SFT2, I'm going geocaching with a GPS geek friend today, I'm printing out your post, so he can explain this to me .....
 

guy74

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
794
Re: Speedometer question

I have a tele-flex 35 mph speedo in my boat, it is readable down to 5mph and reasonable accurate all the way though the scale according to GPS. It never differed to the GPS by over 2mph. You are right in that you would only use about 1/3 of the scale if you only go up to 20mph. It worked great for me since I had a 35mph boat and pulled skiers at speeds from 20 to 32mph. If I see anything better for your aplication I'll let you know.
Brian
 

Mr.Stuart

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
701
Re: Speedometer question

I have a tele-flex 35 mph speedo in my boat, it is readable down to 5mph and reasonable accurate all the way though the scale according to GPS. It never differed to the GPS by over 2mph. You are right in that you would only use about 1/3 of the scale if you only go up to 20mph. It worked great for me since I had a 35mph boat and pulled skiers at speeds from 20 to 32mph. If I see anything better for your aplication I'll let you know.
Brian

At this point I think I'll go with the 35 MPH speedometer, I looked at one today at a boating supply store in town, and ...well, I think for my application, it will be better then nothing. It?s a start anyway.

The boat will have a full compliment of gauges, at least at this point, that's my plan, I'll go with the speedometer, a volt meter, and amp meter (if I can find one that reads to 6 amps or so) a water pressure gauge, a temperature gauge (not sure if that will be a cylinder head temp gauge, or a water temp gauge) And if I can figure out how to do it, a lower unit oil temp gauge, also a tach, a hobbs meter (hour meter) and not sure what else yet.

I?m still planning things out at this point as to where I want to put the instrument panel, because I also want to ad stick steering.

Once I paint the inside of the boat and get the floor installed, I can start working on the rest of it and kind of plan things out as I go.
 

SFT2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
77
Re: Speedometer question

I know, I'm a geek, but it keeps me too busy to chase beer and drink women. Well, ok, maybe it does drive me to drink sometimes...

Anyway, I'll post what I've learned in case there's another geek out there that's gotten interested.

The Garmin text format:

@071202093252N3024792W09534293S015+00066E0000N0000U0000

Does have the data needed for speed, it's just not in a ready to use format. It's sent as N/S and E/W vector velocity in meters/sec, so you just have to use a formula to get true velocity in MPH:

(Sqrt(E^2 + N^2)) * 2.237 = Velocity in MPH

It's worth that little bit of trouble to be able to use the much easier to parse text format since it has a fixed width and everything is always in the same position. As long as you don't plan on going faster than 9999 MPS (over 22000 MPH) it'll work fine ;) It also won't work if you want bearing data unless you do some math that I don't know to derive bearing from 2 sets of coordinates. Fortunately wet compasses work fine.

So now the good part. This setup only requires 3 parts: a GPS, a microcontroller, and a display. The GPS has to be a Garmin to use the Garmin text output idea, naturally, but there's another route. Parallax, who make the Basic Stamp I'm going to use for the microcontroller since it has all the support components on the board, makes a GPS module that can output time, speed, and heading without having to parse or decode anything. Just ask it how fast and it spits out an answer. For the display, Parallax has a few different things from multiline LCDs to modular 7 segment LED arrays.

So there's what I know. I'm going to work on it a bit more, order some hardware, see if I can't remember how to write code, and do away with my pitot speedo since it has a knack for picking up bits of hydrilla and taking a vacation on me.
 

StrykeKing

Cadet
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
19
Re: Speedometer question

I use my sounder with a paddle wheel sensor as well as a gps, I fish in waters with heavy tidal currents so the water speed and actual speed can be very different (up to +/- 4 mph). I've used several Humminbird units which seemed pretty accurate reading down to 0.5 mph tested in still water against the gps.
 

Mr.Stuart

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
701
Re: Speedometer question

SFT2, I guess I need to learn to use my GPS, or get better educated with it, I can still get myself lost with it, did that again tonight, I'll have to look into it a little further before any of those numbers make any sense to me ..

Strykeking, I have a fish finder, I plan on getting the speed wheel for it, it'd capable of sensing speed, I just need to ad the speed sensor.

I did luck out tonight and won a temp sending unit off ebay for the outboard for $4.00 shipped, so I'm getting closer to getting things together.
 

amynbill

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
242
Re: Speedometer question

I just count the bikinis on the shore.

BPH.

Anything other than that...meh.
 
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