Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

[45Auto]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

These guys show factory list prices on the Mercruiser engine packages. 250 HP is about $11,500, the 300 HP is $13,000, the 425 HP 496 HO with a Bravo 1X drive is $23,500. But like you said, who pays list?

http://www.marinepowerservice.com/B...392/parent_cat1/450396/parent_cat2/450419.cfm

Where do you get the outboards with the fresh-water cooling systems? Haven't seen them anywhere, but then I'm not a real fanatical outboard follower. They could easily be out there and I just haven't paid any attention to them.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Modern tech can be applied to new boat building.

Do you have any idea what is available if you want it? You can buy a 1350 HP, aluminum block/heads, 4 valve/cylinder, quad overhead cam, dry-sump, twin-turbocharged motor that runs at 6500 RPM straight from Mercruiser with a one year warranty for recreational use. No "custom" builders anywhere in sight. Why screw around with Viper V10's and such claptrap?

http://mercuryracing.com/1350/

 

[NYBo]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Proof you are all wrong....and this is an extreme example. 5800 RPM is not that high of an RPM range. Unless your used to...wait for it....1970's technology...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YtkD8CXnW8

it can be done....

Interesting, but that so-called "music" has to go.

What kind of load is placed on an engine on a dyno? Does it truly simulate the real-life load that would occur in a boat?

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Do you have any idea what is available if you want it? You can buy a 1350 HP, aluminum block/heads, 4 valve/cylinder, quad overhead cam, dry-sump, twin-turbocharged motor that runs at 6500 RPM straight from Mercruiser with a one year warranty for recreational use. No "custom" builders anywhere in sight. Why screw around with Viper V10's and such claptrap?

http://mercuryracing.com/1350/

Nice.....but I think I'll leave the "one year warranty" motors for somebody else.
I like tried and true, dead-*** reliable stuff in the boat. If that means "not cutting edge", the so be it. Call me a dinosaur.....

 

[Shamus O'toole]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Interesting, but that so-called "music" has to go.

What kind of load is placed on an engine on a dyno? Does it truly simulate the real-life load that would occur in a boat?

from what my dyno guy says (Marks automotive machine in NPR FL) his dyno puts MORE stress on an engine then real world use both automotive and marine. Now this is what I'm TOLD so you "experts" may disagree.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

from what my dyno guy says (Marks automotive machine in NPR FL) his dyno puts MORE stress on an engine then real world use both automotive and marine. Now this is what I'm TOLD so you "experts" may disagree.

Pretty impressive test, then.

Who you calling an "expert"?

 

[Shamus O'toole]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

sorry, not you bud.....

 

[JoLin]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Nice.....but I think I'll leave the "one year warranty" motors for somebody else.
I like tried and true, dead-*** reliable stuff in the boat. If that means "not cutting edge", the so be it. Call me a dinosaur.....

+1. As a salt-water boater who commonly encounters snotty conditions, and occasionally ventures out of sight of land, I want the electro-mechanical components of my boat to be 10 years behind the times.

Let the automotive manufacturers and their customers work out the kinks... their lives aren't usually endangered when the motor quits.

My .02

 

[Shamus O'toole]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

+1. As a salt-water boater who commonly encounters snotty conditions, and occasionally ventures out of sight of land, I want the electro-mechanical components of my boat to be 10 years behind the times.

Let the automotive manufacturers and their customers work out the kinks... their lives aren't usually endangered when the motor quits.

My .02

do you fly??

 

[Purecarnagge]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Sounds like you have a good business plan, you should start forming your corporation soon, and work on getting that 15 million plus you'll need in capital to be spending on engines for recreational hobbies, during a double dip recession.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

These guys show factory list prices on the Mercruiser engine packages. 250 HP is about $11,500, the 300 HP is $13,000, the 425 HP 496 HO with a Bravo 1X drive is $23,500. But like you said, who pays list?

http://www.marinepowerservice.com/B...392/parent_cat1/450396/parent_cat2/450419.cfm

Where do you get the outboards with the fresh-water cooling systems? Haven't seen them anywhere, but then I'm not a real fanatical outboard follower. They could easily be out there and I just haven't paid any attention to them.

Those prices don't include digital or FW so I'd imagine it's pretty much a wash price wise.

You don't need FW on an outboard. For the most part they don't use Fe based materials in their construction. Nothing to rot away in the presence of SW.

 

[ScotWithOne_t]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

+1. As a salt-water boater who commonly encounters snotty conditions, and occasionally ventures out of sight of land, I want the electro-mechanical components of my boat to be 10 years behind the times.

Let the automotive manufacturers and their customers work out the kinks... their lives aren't usually endangered when the motor quits.

My .02

Interesting thread. Once I started boat shopping I kind of wondered why there weren't more EFI engines out there. Carbs aren't 10 years behind the times, they're more like 25 to 30 years behind the times. I've never had an EFI car not start, or sit there and crank for a minute before firing up. Even in -20?F MN winters, even my old 96 Neon started with a couple turns every time. However, with carbed cars, there's been plenty of times where I needed to sit there and pump the throttle, hold it to the floor, choke it, worry about flooding, etc etc etc. Carbs might be easy for the shadetree mechanic to tune, but the point of EFI is that you never have to tune it (unless of course you modify the engine).

I assume that all computers, wiring etc. would be water-sealed on a boat, so I'm not seeing the fear of EFI. If anything, EFI is 10x more reliable than a controlled fuel-leak (carburetor) system. I'm new to marine engines though, so perhaps there's something I'm missing.

 

[QC]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Odd thread . . .

Carbs are not about a lack of ingenuity. You need to be able to charge for perceived value. EFI = premium, you can't charge more for it if there isn'tr something below it. I am not sure why anybody says that carbs are an indication of the lack of technology and innovation in the marine market when they offer MPI too . . .

Market driven, period. Is there room for some development? Maybe in an up market. You guys need to review that GM link that's been posted a few times. GM builds it, but the "packagers" (Crusader, PCM, Mercruiser, VP) need to buy it.

Another oddity is the belief that it is boat "builders" that are the issue. What do they have to do with it? They'd stick a nuclear reactor in a boat if people would pay for it.

 

[jkust]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

I like and hate carbs as well as the slow pace of the marine industry. When I bought my Chaparral, I discovered that they made the same exact boat with the same power options for 7 years. I could spend twice as much for a new one or get the identical boat a few years old still in the break in period for much less. Unless you really know the miniscule changes from year to year, I look like a new boat owner. I really like that aspect. The engines then from the first year to the last were the same as well since nothing new very notable has come to market other than TKS and the switch from EFI to MPI. I looked far and wide for MPI only to discover they are exceptionally hard to come by in the under 20foot boat market. Sure I'd have loved all the obvious benefits of MPI but carbs still to this day rule the market as paradoxical as it seems. Since most people I know don't have one each of a similar carb and MPI boat I can compare it to snowmobiles. Lost of people have a carbed sled and an EFI sled even though carbs are still used in that industry as well. EFI was offered on sleds somewhere in the late 80's if I recall. I have one of each and when it is -20 F and you are starting each for the day, you really start to dislike carbs. The EFI equipped sleds are just so much better in all respects.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

I will slightly derail the direction of this thread with a point of contention on the orignial topic:

The one thing I find amazing in boat manufacturing is that they are still using wood in boat contruction (cabinets notwithstanding). There are very few boat manufacturers aside from powerboats and high-end stuff (Cobalt, Chris Craft, etc) that use composite transoms and stringers/floor as opposed to the wood they've been building them with for centuries! With the advent of composite materials that have much more strength and rigidity, as well as virtually unlimited lifetimes, why do they still feel the need to sandwhich a 3/4" piece of plywood in fiberglass?

That's my major gripe about modern boat manufacturing. For the record, I also prefer EFI engines, but have no problems with carbed units.

 

[QC]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

Cost ^^^^

Why do home builders use wood? Why not use Formula 1 engines in everything? Why not use carbon fiber hulls in a jon boat?

 

[sasto]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

By the way boat manufactures have rarely if nothing to do with engine builders. They buy what is available. Don't blame me. Carry on.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

I know the answer to this is a result of product development and supply and demand but it amazes me how much technology goes into our cars compared to boats and how inexpensive a car really is for all that it does. My car is weather tight from the factory in a way that I could own it for 20 years without worrying about water all over the interior when it rains. My boat has a canvas cover snapped on that requires a tarp over that to keep it completely dry.

I guess I'm just saying that if demand was as high for boats as it is for cars we would see a vast difference in design features in boats. My lawn mower, weed whacker, snow blower, etc... are all next to new and are all carbed.

 

[Kaplooi]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

I'm not disagreeing but I think this argument is limited mostly to stern drive and inboard engine options specifically. I think you can argue successfully that modern drive systems have kept up with the times given the advent of stuff like pod drive systems and their sophisticated joystick controls that can automatically steer each pod independently as well as work in concert with bow/stern thrusters AND even integrate with gps nav systems (i.e. skyhook). Also, most manufacturers are using modern CAD/CAM systems to design, test and build their hull designs. Stingray for instance can manage to get a V6 runabout to go nearly 60mph and it's pretty much entirely down to the sophistication in their computer aided hull design. And as far as engine design I think you can safely single out Yamaha as a manufacturer with very modern offerings in its jetboat line. They manage to extract 220HP from just 3 liters worth of normally aspirated twin engines and manage reasonably good fuel economy for jet drive.

 

[Shamus O'toole]

Re: Why can't boat manufactures get with the times??

agreed the drive systems are up to speed. It's the engines driving those drives that have not kept up with the automotive industry.

Those that are concerned about a "complicated" computer controlled fuel and timing system in a salt water environment..Do those that live in the snow belt still drive cars and trucks in the snow?? Don't they still SALT those roads??? Do you wash down and use anti-corrosive spray on your engine every time you park said vehicle?? I don't think so.