1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

BoatgoatmfgVT

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

I'm ready to buy the Epoxy and fiberglass, anything that i need to complete this project. I live in a pretty rural place so i can't really just go to the store to get these specialized boat things. What should i buy for fiberglass and epoxy? Tell me what i need and i'll purchase it asap.
 

Jon Sob

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Hey Boat .... where are you located? I didn't use epoxy but poly resin instead. I used it because it is cheaper then epoxy. I ordered all of my supplies from http://www.uscomposites.com/
Some of the glass guys will chime in and give you advise on what to use for your project. I can only speak for what I used on my project because I have had no prior experience with fiberglass so I don't know much about all of the other stuff.

Here is a list of things you will need to get started: 1.5oz CSM (chopped strand mat), 1708 biaxial mat, unwaxed polyester resin (U.S. Composited #404), 1/4" chopped strand, Cabosil and a fiberglass roller.

The amounts of this stuff will depend on what exactly you are going to do on your project. If you are going to glass in a sole then you will need a lot more than if you are just going to do the transom. You will also need some mixing buckets and sticks. I got a box of 2" chip brushes from Harbor Freight and you wouldn't believe how handy they were. If you are replacing your transom with wood then you will need a good exterior plywood. I picked up some fir from the lumber yard for mine and it was a lot cheaper than marine ply.

Here is a video by Friscoboater that anyone starting a project should watch. Look thru his Youtube channel and you will find a lot of info. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3kmr9ZctUo&feature=plcp
 
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jbcurt00

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Epoxy will stick to polyester fiberglass resin, the reverse is not true. If you start w/ epoxy you need to stick w/ epoxy. CSM is of no use w/ epoxy. Epoxy doesn't contain the styrene needed to break the binders in the csm. There are various types of fiberglass cloth available, you need to be sure the cloth you buy is epoxy compatible. And you may end up using a Roving cloth instead of CSM & 1708. US Composites can help you with those choices.

This is a helpful guide to fiberglass & polyester resins. It is a free download ebook. It may help answer a few questions.
 

BoatgoatmfgVT

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Hey Boat .... where are you located? I didn't use epoxy but poly resin instead. I used it because it is cheaper then epoxy. I ordered all of my supplies from http://www.uscomposites.com/
Some of the glass guys will chime in and give you advise on what to use for your project. I can only speak for what I used on my project because I have had no prior experience with fiberglass so I don't know much about all of the other stuff.

Here is a list of things you will need to get started: 1.5oz CSM (chopped strand mat), 1708 biaxial mat, unwaxed polyester resin (U.S. Composited #404), 1/4" chopped strand, Cabosil and a fiberglass roller.

The amounts of this stuff will depend on what exactly you are going to do on your project. If you are going to glass in a sole then you will need a lot more than if you are just going to do the transom. You will also need some mixing buckets and sticks. I got a box of 2" chip brushes from Harbor Freight and you wouldn't believe how handy they were. If you are replacing your transom with wood then you will need a good exterior plywood. I picked up some fir from the lumber yard for mine and it was a lot cheaper than marine ply.

Here is a video by Friscoboater that anyone starting a project should watch. Look thru his Youtube channel and you will find a lot of info. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3kmr9ZctUo&feature=plcp

Hey Jon Sob, your boat looks amazing, i'm very impressed with what you did! For now i'd like to just replace the transom and floor, i'm trying to do the least that needs to be done so i can actually use it this summer. Okay so the things you list is all i'll need to do the transom? I'll have to do measurements of how much csm and biaxial mat i'll need, how much did you need for yours, like how thick did the inner skin need to be? Also, how much Poly resin would you say i need? I"m just wondering how much stuff i'll need for the transom, i'll just put astro turf on the floor for now since i really wanna get out on the water
 
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BoatgoatmfgVT

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

I didnt quite know the difference between Resin and Poly Resin, thanks for informing me
 

BoatgoatmfgVT

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

I just found a 2"x1/2" Lateral hole in the keel, 2" latterly. It looks like there used to be wood beneath it, which is now rotted, the rest of the keel feels strong even though its rotted. Could i just make some Peanut butter and fill it, then sand it smooth? I'm finding so much wrong with this boat!
 

sphelps

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Yep Jon found a hole in his keel also and he had to replace all the wood . He did a great job on the repair . You may want to check out how he handled it ..
 

BoatgoatmfgVT

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Crap, really replace all the wood? isnt there a less professional way to do it? The fiberglass itself feels strong, maybe i could just patch the hole? I'm really don't have the time to completely restore this boat this year, i just want to make it seaworthy so i can go out on lake champlain. Structural is all i'm concerned with at this time, then when the nice weather goes away i'll do a full restoration. The summer is going by fast, unfortunately. Maybe i should just find a boat thats in better condition and save this project for next year. Very discouraging
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Not really VT. You either have to do it right, or not at all. Not only for aesthetic reasons, but for structural and safety issues as well. If it were an aluminum boat you could just rip out the old floor and screw down a new one and have a welder patch up and holes, but f'glass is another animal entirely. Rotten wood is like cancer. You have to cut it ALL out, or it never goes away. That means lots of angle grinders, respirators, funky chemicals and dust flying around :/ Granted, f'glass is shiny and pretty when it's all said and done, but it's a lot of work with materials that you can't just run down to lowes/hd to pick up. Instead, you'll need to make a detailed list of all the supplies you'll need (mat, resins, rollers, supplies, etc...) (plus extra to allow for the inevitable mistakes you'll make while using a new product), then order from sites like uscomposites.com (FL). It will then take additional time and expense to be shipped to you (presumably in VT). It can certainly be done, and you're in the right place to learn, but I don't think that's what you're looking at doing right now. Perhaps you can sell the boat and/or get a tinny to enjoy now before the summer is over. I know that's not the news you want to hear, but there's really no cheap, quick, good way to do anything on a boat. Particularly if it's fiberglass and full of rot :/


B.O.A.T. = Break Out Another Thousand...........no seriously
 

BoatgoatmfgVT

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

I will definitely take your advice. The only way i could get the rotted wood out of this keel would be to use a plumbers snake or something, then it would have to be totally filled with seacast... Definitely not worth my time. It would probably be cheaper to grind the keel away and totally replace it. The more i look at this boat, the more problems i see. I can count like 5 patch jobs in it that are really rough, i'd rather not work on something that has already been worked on numerous times;Improperly none the less. Its a pretty neat little boat, i really want to still work on it, but probably next year. I'm going to find a boat that only needs a floor and transom replacement, the keel was just the last straw. Thank you all for your advice and taking time out of your days to Respond to me, i really appreciate it!
 

sphelps

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Make sure before you give up on it that the whole keel is rotten . I guess you could do core samples with a drill bit along the keel and see. If it looks ok on the rest maybe you could just patch the bad part. But if your dead set on gitting in the water quick you may as well start looking for another boat..
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

I will definitely take your advice. I really want to still work on it, but probably next year. I'm going to find a boat that only needs a floor and transom replacement, the keel was just the last straw. Thank you all for your advice and taking time out of your days to Respond to me, i really appreciate it!

You need to be looking for a tinny. Most glass, even only 1 or 2yr old boats, suffer from a lack of sufficient air flow below decks to dry & maintain a fiberglass boat's bilge. And once the plywood (presumably) that the stringers were made of originally, get wet, they are the HOV lane for the water to travel through out all the wooden structure that are in contact w/ that 1st piece that got wet. Even boats that 'look' sound can easily be a major time consuming project. Friscoboaters first resto is a perfect example.

A get out on the water quickly plan will also run aground w/ a tinny, but inexpensive, quick repairs are much easier in a tinny. Often the inner support structure on tin is less wood & more metal (except the transom).

There are TONs of boats everyday @CL & other sites for sale. But my 1st suggestion would be to follow this thread @ the Starcraft Owner's forum. It's Starcraft (tin) boats found on CL, ebay & etc, currently there have been 4200+ posts in 23months. Probably a total of 2500-3000 boats (guess-timate) have been posted. Most are Starcraft, vast majority are tin, some in amazing shape and some derelict. Also let everyone you know that you're looking, tucked away & almost forgotten tin can be in amazingly good shape:

5Nb5F85J23G73J33Hdc748b9d1bd4d5a41082.jpg


My FireFlight had open core, no wood, fiberglass only stringers, that are in decent shape & will remain untouched. A huge labor, material & time savings. It has still been a good bit of work to get it to where it now sits in my garage. Waiting for me to come back to working on it.
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

jb that thing is SWEEEET!!!! I love the fins! They gotta be good for an extra 5-10 mph on the top end :)
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

The trailer looks to be a tilt trailer, very similar to the 1960 Gator trailer I started working on today. The black trim @ the windshield doesn't seem to original. The floor may have been replaced recently, but be wary of how it was done. However, in a tinny a rotted floor won't rot the stringers, and 'usually' the transom stops above the floor. But check the transom & floor really well just the same.

Else :), but w/out the motor negotiate.

The Speed Twin 28 might be a touch underpowered for it though:eek:
 

BoatgoatmfgVT

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

The trailer looks to be a tilt trailer, very similar to the 1960 Gator trailer I started working on today. The black trim @ the windshield doesn't seem to original. The floor may have been replaced recently, but be wary of how it was done. However, in a tinny a rotted floor won't rot the stringers, and 'usually' the transom stops above the floor. But check the transom & floor really well just the same.

Else :), but w/out the motor negotiate.

The Speed Twin 28 might be a touch underpowered for it though:eek:
Thanks for the reply. I'll try negotiating 400, what would you try bringing him down to? Do you think id be able to go at least 10mph with the speeditwin 28?
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Thanks for the reply. I'll try negotiating 400, what would you try bringing him down to? Do you think id be able to go at least 10mph with the speeditwin 28?

If you take CheapBoatKEv or Jas w/ ya, you might bring that home for $100 w/ no motor:eek:

Like most used stuff, esp on CL, very few (even firm prices) are posted for a real # the seller will accept. Esp when the Admiral (swmbo ~ She Who Must Be Obeyed) wants the yard, driveway or garage cleared of old boats:facepalm:

Take what cash you want w/ you, but don't tip your hand on how much you like it. Get a feel for the owners need/desire for you to take it. Not how much you want it, esp w/out motor. And be prepared to walk, if only back to the truck to give the seller a chance to see you'll leave. But tin is in, so if you can justify the cost, only you can decide if it's priced right for you based on condition (trailer too) and your needs. And even rotten derelict glass boats will eventually have a buyer:facepalm: so someone else may also be after this Nassau.

Like I said, my ebay Jet was supposed to be water ready, and may have been 'usable' as is, but w/ bedliner & 1 or 2 other things, I decided to remove all that 1st, so I KNEW the condition of everything. Turns out it wasn't great, packing styro peanuts & spray foam along w/ the bedliner all not good.

Really try to figure out if they used pressure treated ply ANYWHERE. If so start below $200, that stuff has got to go. When wet (hmm it's a boat) PT chemicals react w/ the aluminum & are corrosive (galvanic response) and cause pitting. Which, when on the surface & until it goes through the hull, can be repaired w/out too much trouble. Swiss cheese through holes can too, but not as easily.

If the transom & the shaft length of the motor match up, I'm sure you can use it, but I think most 16' tinny's are running 70-90hp, I think InMotion was the most recent 16' splash (90hp on a Jupiter). I am not familiar enough to know how well a 28 will motivate a Nassau. I think it's hull is different in a couple ways to a Jupiter. Beam (width), exactly how long (1963 Jupiter 15' 9" w/out motor) and how much V the bow has, and how that transitions to the shallow V at the transom. But a 1966 is rated for a 75hp.

You might check the Starcraft brochure sticky at the SC owner's forum homepage. The FiberGlassics library doesn't list a 1966 brochure. And take notes. Take a tape measure w/ you & compare the specs to the boat. Take a few years worth of data w/ you. As w/ many vintage boats, the owner &/or title may not be correct. My Jet was also supposedly a 1974 based on 3 past owner's bills of sale:eek:

Good luck in your quest.
 

BoatgoatmfgVT

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

The transom depth is 21", my boats motor is about 19. Is this a problem?
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

Did you measure them both as per this:
shaft_measure.gif


Which boat is 21? The MFG? @19" the 28hp should be fine. When you fire it up & run the boat on plane w/ a usual load in the boat, w/ the weight distribution of your set up (fore & aft), w/ a usual # of people, there may need to be some adjustments to the motor up or down on the transom.
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1960's 13' MFG carefree Rebuild (complete noob, i know nothing about this!)

BTW: This resto is back on track after life's stuff held it up for a year or 2. It's a Nassau...
 
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