City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

[Fly Rod]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

It sounds like a lot of other people don't looked into the city ordinances or read the deeds to their property before buying their home.

This is so true. Being in real estate I see more buyer's just sign on the dotted line with out reading. One thing that a buyer should do is go to the building inspection office and see what is allowed.

One town in my area has an ordinance that you have to sign an affidavit prior to purchasing that you will not complain about the farm next door or down the road.

Small town next to me had a town meeting on saving the rooster. An out of towner complained about the neighbors rooster in the early morning and a town meeting resulted. Towns people had bumper stickers that said, "Save The Rooster." The rooster won, town ordinance states you can have farm animals.

 

[drrpm]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

The title of the original post is misleading. The ordinance says you can work on your vehicles, etc if they're in a garage. That seems reasonable. Most people who live in developed areas don't mind extraneous toys and vehicles that are temporarily parked in a yard but they don't want to look at it for years.

 

[bigdee]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

It sounds like a lot of other people don't looked into the city ordinances or read the deeds to their property before buying their home.

That is not always true....a city can drum up a new ordinance whenever it wants to. When I bought my house out in the country there were no ordinances,now the county has made into law all kinds of rules.
My 2nd home is in an HOA and is is much easier to deal with the board members there because they are my common sense neighbors and not a bureaucracy.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

The title of the original post is misleading. The ordinance says you can work on your vehicles, etc if they're in a garage. That seems reasonable. Most people who live in developed areas don't mind extraneous toys and vehicles that are temporarily parked in a yard but they don't want to look at it for years.

No, actually it says you can't. I think I posted the applicable ordinance, but here it is again:

(1) Repair services. Repair services are limited to those appliances or other goods small enough to be carried by one person. Motor and recreational vehicles and equipment and small engine repair are not permitted except for minor emergency repairs and minor maintenance to autos, non-commercial trucks, or recreational vehicles and equipment that are licensed to residents of the property, provided they can be completed within a 24-hour period or are conducted inside a garage or accessory structure and are in compliance with the City Code. Vehicle painting will not be permitted in residential districts.

For purposes of the city code, boats come under "Recreational Equipment" FYI.

The important phrases here are highlighted. The city's code enforcement people actually agree with my interpretation - no work on boats is allowed on residential property except for minor maintenance or minor emergency repairs, and to do those I have to either finish the work in 24 hours or have the item in question indoors. (The CE people actually claim it's both, not either of those). I think it's a badly written, draconian, and badly enforced law, but we don't disagree on what it says.

In case anyone's interested, the full online city code is here, the link goes to the Repair Services section:
Brooklyn Park City Code

Edit: Looks like the link defaults to the main page. Just do a search for "repair services" if you want to see the law I'm quoting.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

I agree, I would put a small fence up across the side of your garage.

I take it you mean across the driveway/attached garage? I'm actually planning on building an 8.5 foot high privacy fence around the whole yard at this point, assuming I stay here.

The thing is, the code enforcement inspectors have stated explicitly that even hidden behind a fence, they don't think my boats are allowed because they call them "junk". They also seem to feel free to inspect within my property as they please, so I can't rely on a fence alone to keep them from looking inside.

They have ordered people in the past (my hoarder neighbor, in particular) to remove the materials inside a trailer in his driveway covered with a tarp because they were "junk". I'm not talking about a heap of stuff, it's a small box trailer with about 90 cubic feet of space and a tarp bungeed down over the top. They forced him to get rid of the stuff even though you couldn't tell it was in there.

For them, it's not whether they can see it or not... once someone complains, it's the fact that it exists at all.

Erik

 

[rbh]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

Repair services in my mind is a commercial application, you are not providing a service to anyone but yourself, and that is not a service!!

If the ordinace said no repairs to vehicles period, then they got ya covered.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

I wish you well on your journey, you have several issues to deal with not just one. My neighbor is a hoarder in the worst way and I am sure if I tried to sell my home, I would be out some $$ just because of the mess I have next door. I have 2 issues, 1 is the loss of value to my place, 2 the house looks like a dump and I get to look at that every time I come home. I take offence to both, and it affects me directly. But because I like to keep peace, I don't say or do anything, they have teenage boys who could do many things which I don't want. I guess I pick my battles, and it just isn't that important to me. I don't think you will win your fight, I think you will pay a bunch of $ potentially, and still end up mad. Once you have been targeted or they have received complaints about you, it will never end. Might consider finishing all of your projects and limiting your exposure to the powers to be. You seem to start a bunch of projects and not finish them in a reasonable time frame. And out of sight is out of mind, so long term you may want to complete these bigger projects behind the privacy of your garage or out buildings. No one would have ever bothered you if this stuff was stored inside, at least I would hope not. And I wouldn't worry about the law about what you can or cant do inside your garage, because they would never know!! Might be too late for that now.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

Having been on a HOA in the past and knowing they operate similarly to code enforcement offices you are pretty much screwed.

It's interesting how many people have said this to me when I've talked about this with anyone.

I agree that it's no picnic, but despite the fact that the deck is stacked against me (by design, it seems) it's not a hopeless battle. Frankly, it's not in my nature to give up when faced with a problem like this. I'm sort of concerned as to why so many people feel this way. Maybe something in our government or educational system is conditioning people to believe "you can't fight city hall"?

It'll be a tough fight, but the records of the court systems in the US have hundreds if not thousands of cases on record where an individual or small group did in fact win against the government (US, State, or local). Given the feedback I've gotten from attorneys and advocacy groups so far, it sounds like I'm not inventing conspiracies in my head or something... they agree I have a legitimate grievance, and a decent chance of getting things corrected.

In case you're wondering, I've already resigned myself to the fact that I may not win, and that I may end up paying several thousand $$ to make the city happy. Unfortunately for them, I'm ok with a pyrrhic victory. If I end up having to get rid of my boats and firewood and pay fines for everything, I'm going to go through my list of legal yet annoying activities and get busy. Since people will ask, here's the list so far:

* Spend 3-4 hours per week cruising local streets looking for code violations, especially repair services going on. Document each instance with photographs, time and date, then deliver them by hand to the code enforcement office as complaints. I expect I can probably turn in about 20-30 of these per week, which should both add to the workload of the CEPH department and create a large number of people very unhappy with the city. If they ignore them because they come from me, use this as further evidence of selective enforcement for a lawsuit.

* Obtain via freedom of information request or court subpoena the list of enforcement citations assessed in the last 4-5 years with specific violations cited, including demographic information on the residents, and look for evidence of bias and selectivity. If bias is found against a specific group, go to the news media with the data for purposes of informing that group.

* Create a web site (I'm a computer admin by trade) detailing each of the objectionable laws in the city code along with example activities that would generate fines. Link a list of city council members from the web site to permit people to contact their representative member. Advertise the web site in flyers and newspapers.

* Replace my lawn, front and back, with a prairie restoration. This is explicitly allowed in city code, and is a long process that involves killing existing plants and grass, waiting a year, then fertilizing and replanting with native species that are ecologically sound but which will make my yard look (to some people) like a vacant lot full of brush.

* Begin attending and requesting time on the agenda of City Council meetings to discuss questionable laws in the city code

* Buy a booth space at the January boat show in Minneapolis to explain why boaters shouldn't move to Brooklyn Park


I could go on listing activities for a while, but basically I won't give up, ever. It's probably a character flaw, or maybe I'm still just naive enough to believe in fighting for what's right.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

Repair services in my mind is a commercial application, you are not providing a service to anyone but yourself, and that is not a service!!

If the ordinace said no repairs to vehicles period, then they got ya covered.

If you read that whole section of the code, specifically the line titling the section above the first line I posted (sorry, should have included that) it does. The line that matters is:

(B) Vocations and avocations in residential districts.
(1) Repair services. Repair services are limited to those appliances or other goods small enough to be carried by one person......

"Vocations and avocations" means things you do for employment or a job, and things you do as hobbies or for volunteer work. Here's the wikipedia entry for avocation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avocation

The city council might have originally meant the law to include avocations to ensure anyone working on EG. a dozen cars at once in an unpaid fashion for charity would be treated the same as someone running a home auto repair shop. Unfortunately, the wording is vague enough that it covers all work by everyone. They could have easily written "except work done by the homeowner on their own equipment for themselves" but they didn't.

Erik

 

[hostage]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

TBH, I felt bad leaving my 19" cuddy in my driveway last winter and I keep it in good condition. I can understand how people will feel looking at your boats. Sometimes I get annoyed at one of my neighbors. His son's friends make a lot of noise, wrecked a utility box in our front yard, and use most of the cauldisac. I guess living next to an OCD guy who cuts his grass twice a week makes me feel self conscience. Though he also owns a boat but keeps in behind/side of his house. I don't want to be "that guy".

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

Nobody can claim ignorance.

Papers were signed and no-one read them?

Your community has CCR's. You abide or-go away.

Frankly put. If you were next door, I'd complain. I'm pretty tolerant. You cannot HIDE an enormous Bayliner.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

I live out in the country so I can walk outside and target practice in my back yard if I want to. My neighbor was shooting turtles in his pond with his .22. I just can't imagine living someplace with all of those restrictions. That's bull. Who would want to live in a place like that? On one side of me is a small little house, on the other side of me is an empty 10 acre lot that will have a gorgeous huge house on it pretty soon. My property value will go up, not down with time.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

Well, you've drawn the battle lines Eric. That's sure.

I think if I were in your shoes I'd take all the finances I would spend on fees/fines/lawyers/fuel/otherwise and buy materials for a big ol pole building instead. Then, I'd take all the time I'd be throwing at this issue (outlined in post #90) and build it.

But that's just me. We each gotta pick and choose the battles we think are worth fighting for. I wouldn't pick this one, I'd just get a nice big garage instead. I'd win, city wins, neighbors win. Done.

Good luck man.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

Nobody can claim ignorance.

Papers were signed and no-one read them?

Your community has CCR's. You abide or-go away.

Frankly put. If you were next door, I'd complain. I'm pretty tolerant. You cannot HIDE an enormous Bayliner.

No papers signed and no CCRs. Just a city council that in the past has been too lazy to make good laws.

Interestingly enough, today I got an email from a lady on the council letting me know she didn't know about this law herself, and is having her staff research it before discussing it in the meetings.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

Well, you've drawn the battle lines Eric. That's sure.

I think if I were in your shoes I'd take all the finances I would spend on fees/fines/lawyers/fuel/otherwise and buy materials for a big ol pole building instead. Then, I'd take all the time I'd be throwing at this issue (outlined in post #90) and build it.

As mentioned above, pole buildings are specifically outlawed in the city code. Even if you have space, that type of construction is banned. Any structure more than 120 square feet in size must be built up to code using any of a short list of construction techniques, the least expensive of which is standard stud wall construction on a cement slab/cinder block foundation.

If I was allowed to, I'd already have built one and replaced my old, short garage

Erik

 

[jasoutside]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

Sorry, bad terminology - build a really big garage instead of pole building.

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

It's interesting how many people have said this to me when I've talked about this with anyone.

I agree that it's no picnic, but despite the fact that the deck is stacked against me (by design, it seems) it's not a hopeless battle. Frankly, it's not in my nature to give up when faced with a problem like this. I'm sort of concerned as to why so many people feel this way. Maybe something in our government or educational system is conditioning people to believe "you can't fight city hall"?

It'll be a tough fight, but the records of the court systems in the US have hundreds if not thousands of cases on record where an individual or small group did in fact win against the government (US, State, or local). Given the feedback I've gotten from attorneys and advocacy groups so far, it sounds like I'm not inventing conspiracies in my head or something... they agree I have a legitimate grievance, and a decent chance of getting things corrected.

In case you're wondering, I've already resigned myself to the fact that I may not win, and that I may end up paying several thousand $$ to make the city happy. Unfortunately for them, I'm ok with a pyrrhic victory. If I end up having to get rid of my boats and firewood and pay fines for everything, I'm going to go through my list of legal yet annoying activities and get busy. Since people will ask, here's the list so far:

* Spend 3-4 hours per week cruising local streets looking for code violations, especially repair services going on. Document each instance with photographs, time and date, then deliver them by hand to the code enforcement office as complaints. I expect I can probably turn in about 20-30 of these per week, which should both add to the workload of the CEPH department and create a large number of people very unhappy with the city. If they ignore them because they come from me, use this as further evidence of selective enforcement for a lawsuit.

* Obtain via freedom of information request or court subpoena the list of enforcement citations assessed in the last 4-5 years with specific violations cited, including demographic information on the residents, and look for evidence of bias and selectivity. If bias is found against a specific group, go to the news media with the data for purposes of informing that group.

* Create a web site (I'm a computer admin by trade) detailing each of the objectionable laws in the city code along with example activities that would generate fines. Link a list of city council members from the web site to permit people to contact their representative member. Advertise the web site in flyers and newspapers.

* Replace my lawn, front and back, with a prairie restoration. This is explicitly allowed in city code, and is a long process that involves killing existing plants and grass, waiting a year, then fertilizing and replanting with native species that are ecologically sound but which will make my yard look (to some people) like a vacant lot full of brush.

* Begin attending and requesting time on the agenda of City Council meetings to discuss questionable laws in the city code

* Buy a booth space at the January boat show in Minneapolis to explain why boaters shouldn't move to Brooklyn Park


I could go on listing activities for a while, but basically I won't give up, ever. It's probably a character flaw, or maybe I'm still just naive enough to believe in fighting for what's right.

Erik

I think it's great that your standing up for your rights in this "free" country called The United States Of America. I think the city government of Brooklyn Park is somewhat misguided in the wording of your city codes. You have every right to pursue your personal hobbies behind a fence or closed door. As long as it's legal and not harming anyone else.

 

[dennis461]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

You need to start talking to a lawyer.
Tell him you are writing a letter to the township stating that all repairs are completed.
The ordinance say must be complete in 24 hours.

Most townships cannot actually afford lawsuits or litigation that gets ugly.
Once they see you've contacted a lawyer and you've given them reason to suspect repairs are done. They may go away for a while.

DO TALK to neighbors.
Make sure you are not the only one being watched.
In our town, they did a sweep once for a similar ordinance.
Ours read something like ..no abandoned vehicles.."
Lots of folks got nasty letters in the mail.

 

[lil buggy]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

good eve Eric,
i have read thru and think i understand your situation.
you arent in a good place right now.

as i am reading a couple of things come to mind,
first to quote you,

((About fences: Part of the problem may have been triggered by my desire to put up a privacy fence. As a first step in the process, I paid for a lot survey last summer. What the surveyor discovered was that the property line is not where the current chain link fence is. As a result, I'll be "annexing" about half of one neighbors raspberry patch and about a 7 foot by 100 foot swath of my nearest neighbor's back yard. Before anyone accuses me of provoking things, all I'm doing is measuring where the lines are so I don't build a fence on someone else's property. I don't mean to "steal" anyone's land, but if I pay a mortgage and taxes on land, I'm darn well going to use it instead of letting them have it for free))

i do believe your neighbor likes his raspberries:facepalm:.
my suggestion to you is to take your neighbor a raspberry pie with a nice raspberry wine, along with a raspberry stitched kitchen towel set
and ask to spend some time discussing leaving his or her raspberry patch on your property, as well as the fence on your land well enough alone.
of course with the agreement that if he sells he must move the raspberry patch as well as the fence before listing his property.

i am guessing that the raspberry lover has spent alot of time growing his patch
and when the stakes went in, he was shocked and wanted to strike back
we are all on the offense now a days, take a step back and try to appease the neighbor.

ive read alot of your posts on here,
and i think that if you can relate our boating love to that of his raspberry fondness
i bet you will water them berries and he will allow you to finish your projects as well as start new ones.
not sure if its too far gone yet but its worth a try.

just thinken here,
then all thats left to do is appease the code officer to get him to go away.
run for council!
then get on with it
we need posts

whadyathink

 

[foodfisher]

Re: City outlawed me owning boats or working on them (MN, USA)

I remember something about, if you do nothing, then it's considered accepted and you lose your standing and property.