Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

[veilside180sx]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Congrats on the new toys. The Festool setup are nice for cuts that don't harden the edge like a plasma.

You were willing to bite off something I wasn't, which is why I'm using a Starcraft hull and replacing everything else.

Save yourself the hassle and burn all the main welds with the 212. You'll get really burned out running 20 ft long dimes with the TIG.

Is the Everlast torch watercooled?

 

[Triton II]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Wow nice cutting job on the transom SS.

It's really interesting to see this kind of work as it happens. Thanks for the opportunity. Cheers,

TII

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Great work so far. This is going to be fun to watch.

One of the things I discovered pretty quick was the amount of chips that fly everywhere. I think I'll put a fresh bag in my dust collector and use it. You can't really sweep the stuff up because it gets all bound up in the broom.

Please be careful if you have dog(s) that get out in the garage.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Great work so far. This is going to be fun to watch.



Please be careful if you have dog(s) that get out in the garage.

Thanks, didn't really think about that don't want them lapping up a bunch of sharp chips. I keep a pretty clean shop but I'll be extra careful now.

Veil - I've had Festool tools in my shop for about 6 years now. The US catalog is minimal compared to the one my cousin in Stuttgart sent me.

All my torches are water cooled. The Everlast torch is a water cooled Euro style and I'm not fond of it at all. I consider it a freebie since neither Miller or Lincoln sells the base unit with a torch.

I have CK and WeldCraft torches that I like a lot better.. The CK's are my fav's. I've got them in a 18/350amp and a 20/250amp with superflex hoses. You hardly even feel the hose weight, it's like having a single whip.

I'm going to TIG as much as I possibly can. My 212 does'nt have a pulser so the welds aren't nearly as strong as TIG, I've proven that in several tests. I'm also welding a lot of 6061 Extrusions to 5052 using 5356 rod and TIG is the best way to ensure that you get good infusion.

This is TIG'd with a Fillet weld on the inside and a beveled 2 pass butt weld on top. This is the joint that's used on the frame flange and this is the direction of force that would occur. I cranked down on it with the vise then beat on it with a 3lb single jack. No cracks in either the welds or the HAZ area. I was running 80%Ar and 20% He.

Yes, it is a lot of extra work but I have nothing but time and I only work a couple of hours at a time. If I was in a production shop trying to knock these out for customer and working 10-12 hour day's doing that then I'd jump up to a 350p or bigger and MIG everything.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

I spent 3 hours yesterday and a couple of hours today laying out and cutting Frame #1. I didn't take any pic of the layout or cutting process because quite frankly I wasn't exactly sure how it was going to go.

I wanted to plunge cut all the straight lines with the circular saw but that didn't work out. It kept wanting to climb out just as I cut through. I ended up using my Festool reciprocating saw and it worked beautifully. The trick is to use plenty of WD-40 and stop and clear the chips off the line every 5 or 6 inches. It took about 2 hours to cut it out I think.

The bummer is that it takes a full 4x8 sheet to make one frame and you can't butt weld the halves together. I'll show you why later. I sure hope I can find a home for all this left over metal. On the next frame I go through the process of laying it out and cutting it now that I know how to do it.

 

[sprintst]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Two hours. At least 6 has gone by so in theory you should have 3 more pieces or so done by now. Is this boat gonna get done or not. Fold tab A into slot B. Seems like pretty simple stuff

Merry Christmas man...

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Two hours. At least 6 has gone by so in theory you should have 3 more pieces or so done by now. Is this boat gonna get done or not. Fold tab A into slot B. Seems like pretty simple stuff

Merry Christmas man...

ROFLOL... Two??? try 4 minimum, the first one took 6 because I was trying to figure where Tab A was. I just did #2 and timed it just at 4 hours. We did Christmas last night otherwise I'd be on the lake today... I took pic's of the entire process this time and I'll have them posted later this evening..It's a little more complex than you might think.

Seriously though Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

I have been reading through this hole thread all day on and off and I would like to proclaim that you are the Norm Abrams of I-Boats your work and organizational skills are outstanding keep up the good work and I along others are watching and waiting for the next installment. The right tools do make allot of difference in the right hands!

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Lay your sheet of 1/4" aluminum on top of two saw horses. When you do this by yourself don't try to lift it up an throw it on there like a sheet of plywood. Use your head and think leverage. Make the sheet work for you. Get it close then stand it on a corner and lift one end onto one saw horse then lift the other end and kick the other saw horse under it. You can then adjust it to get them centered with very little effort.

The first matter at hand is to clean the surface. A clean surface will hold the markings better when you spray over them with WD-40 during cutting. I use Acetone, a clean rag and work gloves. The work gloves are so you don't cut your hand on the sharp edge of the sheet.

The next thing you need to do is make sure you have everything you need to do the work. Here is a picture of everthing you'll need. Gather it up before you start and you won't have to go looking for it later. This may sound odd but how many times have you had to go looking for something and then came back and forgoten what you were doing.

The first step in layout is to find the measured edge of the material. You want to start with the most square corner you can find. I specified that all corners would be square when I ordered the material. I bet you didn't know that they cut this from a roll and then flatten it? Anyway, I use a framing square that I have tuned and checked with a machinist square. I'm going to assume that you know that you need to tune framing squares and that you know how to use one. I couldnt place it properly and take the photo so I have it sitting relevant to the corner that was most square.

We mark this end of the sheet with a "M" and take all of our measurements using that corner as the reference. Now well find a point 48" inches from that edge. This is suppose to be a 4x8 sheet but the cut can be within an 1/16 either way. When we take this measurement we do so at the edge of the material. Never take it from the center since your tape could be skewed and that will throw your measurement off quite a bit.

Now well use the framing square aligned to the first mark and then mark a second point out in the field. Never, never, never, make more than two marks to form a straight line. It'll make you crazy.

We can now use our precision straight edge to complete the line.

Wow, that's a lot of stuff just to draw one line. It's important to get it right and now that you know how to do it you won't have to read this again! Ever!. LOL..

Continued in next post..

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Continued from previous post -

Well now we can get down to laying out the frame. We start by laying down the full size plans. and centering them on the centerline. I use my ice pick to put small punch mark dead center of the line on the material near the bottom and then I line up the frames centerline reference point with it and it puts that edge of the plan sheet dead on the money. I then tape the plan in place and align the top edge. I use my straight edges as weights to flaten the plan and I added a small heater under the sheet to warm it. Remember how well aluminum sucks up heat.. This is a slick way to warm up your whole shop in no time at all..

Now I find the chine point and use the ice pick and hammer to mark it into the sheet and finally the upper right corner.

Once that is done just remove the tape, flip the plan over and repeat the process for the opposite side. Easy as pie..

Now it's just a matter of connecting the dots. The trick here is to establish a measured edge. If you do that, you can use any width marker you want because you'll be cutting to the line and not through the line. I prefer a fine tip Sharpie because for some reason I can stay on the edge of a fine line better than I can a thick line when I'm cutting with a reciprocating saw. Here I setup my straight edge so that the outer edge of the line is the measured edge. I'll use this outer edge for all my other measurements.

Now we get out the 1/12 scale plan sheet and using that outer edge line we can transfer the measurements we take from the plans to the sheet.

Here's a couple of tricks for making the radius's -

1. The inside of this tape roll looked about right to me so that's what I used.

2. This next radius was a little bigger and this was the easiest way to do it. I just clamped a couple of 1x4 blocks to the sheet and used my machinist ruller to form the curve. This is supposed to be a 9" radius so I measured back 4.5" on both sides from the center of the junction. I suppose I should have broken out the dividers and done it that way but this is within a 1/16th so I think it's o.k.

Continued in next post..

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Continued from previous post -

Here's what a fully laid out chine point looks like.

This is all of the layout completed -

Tomorrow I take some pictures of the cutting process.

 

[sprintst]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Holy smokes man.

I was kidding about the boat in a day thing. You are really going for it. Too bad I didn't have the cash lying around for the materials as it's probably just as easy as it is to do two as it is to do one. ")

You're not kidding about laying everything out you'll need at the start. I have to go through the garage over the break to figure out where everything is again...

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

LOL, I knew you were kidding... It's a lot more work than doing a resto for sure. With a resto you take what you've got, work with it and come up with something better. With a fresh build you have to learn what the other custom boat builders already know. You'd be suprised how much trial and error stuff went on behind the scenes on that first frame. The frame thing is just a small piece of the puzzle and another mystery waits just around the corner.. It's a lot of fun but my head sure gets clogged up a lot. Hopefully this thread will keep others from spending hours contemplating their next move. You really have to think ahead a lot.

 

[sprintst]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

At least it's going to be exactly what you want with some kick butt welds. Not many people get the chance or have the resources or are crazy enough to make that kind of choice...

 

[Jeep Man]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Hi Steve,
I see your back at it. Following your recent FrankenMerc Project was like reading a book with you putting us in your shop as silent students. I'll be following this project thru like the last. As your skills are well beyond mine when it comes to boats and metal work, I will quietly observe. Thank You for continuing to show us in vivid detail what is possible when you plan, research and complete a project. Your contribution to the forum is invaluable.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Thanks for the compliments guy's... You'd be suprised how much things like that contribute to the project

Cutting 1/4" 5052-H32 Aluminum is pretty easy compared to cutting steel. Here's the tools that I've found work the best.

You also want to drill entry and exit holes so you can maximize the size of the left over material. In the end you'll have three good size pieces instead of 6 or more smaller ones.

I've learned to use WD-40 a lot. It will extend the life of your saw blades and drill bits. Although Al is pretty soft, if it gets hot it will clog your bits and blades and render them useless. I've cut out the transom and 4 frames now and I'm on my second blade. You wouldn't get 1/4 of a single frame done if you didn't use a lubricant/coolant of some sort.

I like WD-40 becasue it's easy to clean up and is none penetrating so as long as you do normal prep work for welding you won't have any problems with it as a contaminent. I tested this before I started using it.

Here's a shot of the saw and the cut. Notice the word cut written on the plate. That tells me which side of the line to stay on. If it leave the line on the correct side, I'll always have a little extra material to work with when I fit up. Since it is Al, I could always weld in a little extra material if needed but it's much easier to just knock a little off with the die grinder if I have to.

And here's the entire frame cut out. This takes about an hour to cut with the reciprocating saw. The Festool saw has an adjustable recipricol and varible speed. You kind of just have to play with it to find the sweet spot where the saw dosen't bog or try to run away on you.

You want to have a couple of hand clamps handy so you can clamp the cut portion. I also throw some stickers under it to help support the cutoff piece.

That's about it for cutting out frames. Hopefully you can take advantage of this and save yourself some money buying things like plasma cutters and expensive saw blades. I'll use them I'm sure but I doubt I'll need them to build this boat.

Frame #5 is layed out and ready to cut and then I just have 6, 7 and the Stem (3/8"). The rest of the frames are just more of the same but the 3/8" Stem might be a little challenging so I'll be back when I get to that.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Thanks, didn't really think about that don't want them lapping up a bunch of sharp chips. I keep a pretty clean shop but I'll be extra careful now.

It's their feet that are the issue. My uncle had a machine shop and a companion Springer Spaniel that he unfortunately had to start keeping out of the shop and even the little office after she got a sliver or two in her paws.

Excellent work so far.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

LOL, maybe that'll cure that drag butt poodle the old lady has...

 

[Triton II]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

LOL, maybe that'll cure that drag butt poodle the old lady has...

Ouch... now my mind is full of PITA jokes... great to see there's an engineer out there with a sense of humour.

TII

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

I've finished cutting out all the frames 1-7, the Transom and the Stem. The Stem was a little intimidating (read as me overthinking again) until I actually did it and it turned out to be really easy. I layed down the full size plan and used the ice pick to punch dents about every three inches along the line. The Stem is 3" wide throughout it's entire length so the corresponding opposite line was just marked opposite the punch marks on the metal.

I then used my 8' straight edge and a few blocks to connect the dots and draw the full line.

I used the reciprocating saw again with Bosch 118b blades. It took two blades, a lot of WD-40 and a lot of stopping a clearing the chips off so I could see the line but whe n you consider I cut 20 ft of 3/8 5052-H32, that's not too bad.

I cleaned up the shop since the Stem was my last major cut until I start plating. Here's a shot of the 4 main frames and the transom. These are pretty close to where they'll end up except the transom has to drop down.

The amount of time to complete the frames, transom and stem was right about 7 days. I didn't just hammer into it either I had to replace a piston in a Merc V-6 also and of course Christmas, etc. A rough estimate of time would be about 30 hours. The transom was easy since it was just layout and 4 straight cuts. The first frame took more time since it was a lot of trial and error. From then on, the process was fairly repetitive so it went reasonably fast. I'll have to admit, my 57 year old back is a little sore today. Weather permiting tomorrow I'll bolt FrankenMerc back on the boat and get it out of here. After that I may start the fit up stage of the frames. That part is time consuming and critical to making the plating work without the chine bars.