Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

I've heard nothing but good things about the Everlast product line. They're supposed to be a cut above the (other?)Chinese imports. There's a guy on Youtube who does some TIG welding videos using one of their units.

If I were going to buy a new TIG welder as opposed to a used model, I'd buy an Everlast.

Erik

Erik, well see how the Plasma Cutter works out, it's sitting on my door step right now. I've got a tried and true Miller 212 Mig with a sweet new spool gun and the Lincoln Precision 225 but if the Cutter turns out to be a good piece I may just pickup their 250 TIG. It will definitely save on energy compared to the hog Lincoln (which I really do like).

Actually now that I think about it, I've got everything I need to build this boat now. I need to fight off the OCD and get on with it... LOL..

 

[Triton II]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

SS, I'm excited for you with this build, it's a very cool looking boat and I love plate boats! Best of luck and post LOTS of pics as you go. Cheers,

TII

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Thanks TritonII I think we're going to get started here pretty quick.

So, now with the Everlast Power Plasma 60 review..

The unit arrived on my porch at 1:40pm today and I had it up and running by 7:30pm. That includes dinner and trip to Home Depot for a 2p 50a plug.

Here's the scenario.. Got the box around to the shop and took pic's of the condition which was a non-issue item. I unpacked it and took pictures as I went.

I opened up the instructions looking for assembly diagram and found none. Thats a hit but if you don't have your head too far up your.... you'll find its really a no brainer. I think the only mistake you might make is putting the air filter on backwards. There is an arrow on one side only but if you look at the filter you'll see that it means input.

The next thing I noticed was that it only had 10ga wire for the input power. The manual says it needs 50 amps and 10 gauge isn't going to carry that. Then I realized that unlike some of the other manufacturers they were stating max input current as a total rather than a single leg. In that case, 25 amps per leg is fine on 10ga wire. My Lincoln 225 pulls a max of 49 per leg and runs on 8 gauge wire. It actually only pulls 41.3 maxed out with the tungsten stuck on the metal.

The reason I mention that is because you might be pushed away from the unit if you think it's going to pull 100 amps and only produce 60. I know I would be.

O.K. so the first thing I did was hook everything up. Again, this is a no brainer, clearly marked and simple. I checked all the switch settings, turned it on and then tested the hf start. The first couple of times I pressed the trigger, it stuttered then it smoothed out. I suspect this was an air issue since I have a series of drops, dryers and filters on my air system and I don't have any water. Whatever it was it did not repeat after it sat for 15 minutes. Next I tested the alarms by turning off the air and pressing the trigger. As soon as the air ran low, it cut off which is what it's supposed to do.

I then checked all the controls and found that the minimum current is 19 amps and the max was 65 according to the LED. But who cares really, it's just a reference until you get used to what the machine needs to cut different types of metal.

I set the machine to 20 amps and drag cut a piece of 1/8 aluminum. It left a little slag on the bottom edge so I tried a few different setting and finally got a clean drag cut. I then did a push cut and there was zero slag again. What that tells me is that it doesn't take long to learn how to use this machine.

Next I cut some 1/8" mild steel. I cut like butter and left an amazingly clean cut. I was almost going to go make a peanut butter sandwich and take a video of me cutting it with the torch but that's just a parlor trick like TIG welding tin foil so I held back. Hint, it's the tin pan under the sandwich that's actually being cut and the sandwich is just in the way. However, it is a good example why you don't want to rest your hand down on your welding table and drag the lit torch across it. Yes, it will take your fingers off!

So after a total run time of about 15 minutes, I would have to say it's a winner. I have used the Miller 875 and although it can be fitted with a drag tip that this one doesn't have, I don't know remember that it cut any better or was any easier to learn to use.

My advice on this unit.. Buy it, I got mine for 750.00 to the door and I got it overnight because of my near location to the west coast distributor and those are things that I can't guarantee you'll get but I can say that you will get a good Plasma Cutter.

What would I change? I will change to a better air filter after the warranty runs out. It's pretty whimpy and even though I have an extremely dry air system you never want to take a chance. I think I will also call them and find out if a different torch can be used with it. This one works fine but I'd like to put a little lipstick on this thing and see what she's really capable of.

There website is http://www.everlastgenerators.com/

In it's new home on top of the MIG welder.. For now anyway..

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

I spent the day winterizing my boat and paid an outrageous price for a all weather cover. She's gonna sit outside from now on.

I start building the form tomorrow.. Mark the official build start date as 10/17/2010...

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

The day started in a most fitting manner,the rain came to mark the end of the boating season and the start of the building season. I'm not sure which I look forward to more..
I went to home depot and got the lumber for the build form:

I also picked up two new tape measures a couple of fine tip Sharpies and a new steel ruler. These are all labled "Canyon Cruiser" and I will use the same ones throughout the build. It's a practice I was taught by a master cabinet maker years ago and it makes a lot of sense.

I think I mentioned earlier how I was setting up the shop so work would flow. Here's and example of how I'm using the drill press table to level the workpiece and get a perfect cut.

I couldn't haul a 20' 2x6 in my Tahoe so I got two 2x6x12's and I'm using a 30 degree scarf joint to mate them end to end.

Heres the base member scarfed together and setup on the floor:

The rest of the process is just a matter of taking the measurements off the plans, converting them and cutting wood. I pre drilled all the holes through only one of the pieces and I used deck screws with a #10 washer to fasten it together. The natural assumption is that you would use glue on the joints because this form has to be perfectly level. You don't want to do that because you have to take it apart to get it out of the boat later. Here it is completed:

If it appears that the form is sloping down going forward, it is. My garage floor has 2 degrees of fall so the water runs out the doors if it floods. Never has but it's there just in case. You might also notice that the uprights are 1/16th off the floor. That's because the uprights are kiln dried studs and the 2x6 is green cut. It will shrink 1/16" in thickness when it dries and then uprights will land solidly on the concrete. It should take about a month to dry. If you don't do that the base member will end up 1/16 off the deck.

It doesn't look much like a boat yet but I can see it in my mind.

 

[fshngho]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Yeah I was going to ask about that 1/16" difference...
I like your way of thinking Sschefer. Nothing like haveing a clean, organized shop, exspecially with a project like yours. Thsi is going to be interesting. I can see myself learning a lot.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Funny thing about that 1/16th of an inch. We tend not to worry about it much when we do resto's because quite frankly, there's not much you can do about it anyway.

In a scratch build like this, 1/16th of an inch can telegraph into 3/8 or even 1/2 really quick. According to my research, if the bottom of the boat is out any more than an 1/8 you'll know it.

Besides, if it's dead on then I don't have to make up stories like "That's they way I designed it" or "I like it better this way".. which, as we all know, is just BS for "I screwed up".

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

I will be keeping track of time and cost to build this boat. I'll round up the cost of the welding equipment to 5500.00 but it's a number that can vary widely so I will not put it into the cost of the boat. Just know that if you don't have the equipment you need to budget for it. Tools are things that can last a lifetime so it's hard to put the cost into one job unless your the contractor that built my house. I will include consumable tools in the cost. I'll include the cost of the plans in the final tally.

Labor: 5 leisurely hours
Windshield Time: 1 Hour
Materials: 86.83
Consumable Tools: 67.28

To date:
Total Labor: 6 hours
Total Cost: 154.11

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Funny thing about setting things up and taking pic's. You can stare at them for a long long long time and think about better ways to do things. Is there one right way? I dunno. Tonight I'm going to number all the pieces in the form, dissassemble it and then store it off to the side. This will give me the inside space to start ordering sheet/plate goods and get to laying out and cutting.

Theres a lot of welding to be done on the frames before they go into place on the form and they're fairly large for the space I'm working in. I was going to use the top of the form to lay them on and then I realized I would have to rig an overhead hoist to get some of the heavier stuff up there.

I also realized it would be to my advantage to build the boat with the transom towards the back wall. The rafters are exposed on that end and it will give me a better lifting point when I flip it over. I can use my engine hoist with a swivel pin to lift it at the bow. I am still thinking about a track hoist overhead but it's probably not going to be feasible with the garage door in the way and all.

I guess the moral of this post is "Think Ahead" if you can and take pic's for better visualization.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Wow, very organized so far.

Thanks for the Everlast review. I've been thinking if I can't find a good used Miller or Lincoln TIG at auction I'll pick up one of Everlast's TIG units. My Riland works ok but it's showing its age, and support and the manual has never been the best.

I'm relatively close to having a large CNC router table built, so I'd get a plasma cutter to mount on that and cut metal panels, too. I might actually build a steel boat that way, we'll see.

Keep going, I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of your work.

Erik

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Erik, I bought welders to fit my needs for this project. I have, Lincoln, Miller and Everlast. Miller is evolving faster in the Inverter TIG world. Lincoln is dragging their feet and Everlast is copying Miller. I'm waiting to see what the 2011 Everlasts perform like. If I can get the same performance as a Miller Dynasty for 1700.00 I'll be on it like stink on you know what.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Last Night I numbered and then broke down the build form and stored it. That took about 20 mins.

I was bothered by the use of chine bars on this boat so I thought I'd give it a practice run. I took a couple of pieces of 1/4" AL (unknown grade) then set up the edge as if the bottom was laid on top of the side. This leaves a gap on the inside and a tight fit (in a perfect world) on the outside. This piece was about 8" long and I setup my TIG with a #8 cup, 3/32 2% thoriated tungsten, 190 amps, A/C balance auto and used an 1/8" filler rod. I set it up on the bench just as it would be on the boat and put a 3/8" piece of rod behind the joint.

I looked at it for a few minutes and said, what's the point. It's like putting a big heat sink behind it. I then realized that the idea was to get the rod between the joint.

I looked at that for a few minutes and thought that I'd really have to be lousy at fit up or in a big hurry to use this method. I did a little research and found a post on the Glen-L site that adressesed the subject and it confirmed my thoughts.

I think there's a couple of way's this could be done without the chine bar. I only had time to try one last night. I tacked the outer edge as a butt weld then tried to lay a bead down. I got it to go but I realized almost instantly that it would tough to do the whole boat that way. I setup a couple of new pieces and just tacked them with about 1/2" tacks welds adding a little filler rod.

I then turned the piece over (translate that into turning the boat over) and MIG welded the corner joint. The gap at the joint made it pretty easy to spray down a decent bead. I then turned it back over (again that means another boat turn) and used a grinder with a cuttoff wheel to make a back chip. I layed a root pass in and then started to lay in a fill pass when the 50amp breaker blew so I picked up the MIG and lo and behold that inside corner joint melted down my tip. I only had a 150amp barrel on it and I need to get the 200amp barrell and use more stickout.

So a couple of things came to light. First, don't use the chine bars unless you're just hacking out the boat. Take your time and do proper fit up instead. Second, the Lincoln Precision TIG is a great welder but it's a current hog. I'll be selling it and getting an Inverter style because although I can move around the boat to let things cool, I don't want to stop all the time and let the wiring cool. Third, if you buy a spool gun make sure you get the heavy duty barrel, keep your stickout long and use about 25cfh of Argon. I didn't melt it down after I replaced the tip and nozzel but I was at the limit for the 150amp barrel.

I just put the welder up on CL fpr 1700.00 and if it doesn't sell, then I'll switch to 50/50 Argon/Helium gas and use 2% Lanthanated tungstens.

To date:
Total Labor: 6.5 hours
Total Cost: 154.11

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

The rains have arrived in Northern California. If it keeps up like this all winter, (farmers almanac say's it could), it's going to be bad one. All six of my french drain sump pumps are running right now and it normally takes about two weeks of rain for that to happen.

A very mild summer and a lot of late spring rain has us near saturation already... Doesn't look good for welding, with all those pumps running I don't have the juice to run the welder.

Oh well, maybe I'll get the engine and do that part this winter. If all you have is lemons, make lemonade!

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Heh, good attitude.


Did you ask the architect why the chine bars were there? Without a pic I can't quite see the setup you're talking about, but it seems like they might have a purpose of some sort.

Keep at it.

Erik

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Heh, good attitude.


Did you ask the architect why the chine bars were there? Without a pic I can't quite see the setup you're talking about, but it seems like they might have a purpose of some sort.

Keep at it.

Erik

The boat is a framed boat and at the chine they lay round bar in to tie them together and form the chine line, so to speak. There are also numerous stiffners. A rod butt weld is not a very strong weld and in fact it's highly discouraged in all types of welding.

I did question their use and the explanation was that they are there for inexperienced boat welders that are using only MIG to weld the boat together. They allow for a looser fit-up so you can mess up and still come out with a decent boat.

Most builders use a worm drive skill saw to cut with and it can be a real challenge to fit the bottom to the sides. I'm cutting with plasma and I can cut wide, trim very close and use a diamond grinding wheel to dial the fit in. Most TIG welders have the extra tools required to get excellent fit-up because without that, TIG doesn't work.

I've got what it takes to get the correct fit so I'll be TIG'n the outside corners and stitch welding the inside with the MIG. The chine rods will not be needed or used. It takes longer to do it right but that's something I've learned to accept.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

If they're only there to help in case of poor fit-up, I'd do the same.

My own boat project is already 6 months behind where I wanted it to be, because I'm doing it the right way, not the fast way.

Carry on....

Erik

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Sold the MonArk Legend and the FrankenMerc tonight.. Tears came easy.. I'm going to freshen up the waterpump and service the lower unit for an extra 200.00 and the new owner will take pick it up on Saturday. I got a well above average price for them but no where near what I have in them.

Dang it, I was hoping it wouldn't sell until later in the year....

Go Giants!!!!!!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Sold the MonArk Legend and the FrankenMerc tonight.

Did the buyer request an in-the-water test? If so, what was his reaction to Frank at WOT?

 

[sschefer]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

Did the buyer request an in-the-water test? If so, what was his reaction to Frank at WOT?

Well, no, it was raining though.. He was actually more interested in the boat than he was in the motor. He was constantly talking about changing it out for a 4 stroke.

I fired Frank up and there was very little tell tale and he wouldn't warm up and was running rich. I knew right away the poppet was stuck open and the air valve wasn't getting warm enough to open.

I pulled the poppet and sure enough, the valve was cocked. This is the second Sierra poppet kit I've gotten like that. I put a Quicksilver valve in it and we were good to go.

I put a 21p 15" Silverado on it for him and that will keep it at around 5800 RPM and I told him it still needs 4-5 hours of breakin and not to run it over 3000 RPM. That'll give him time to get used to the boat.

I should probably tell him about the chine walk at 56mph or it will scare the poop out of him.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Glen-L 21' Canyon Cruiser - Aluminum

He was constantly talking about changing it out for a 4 stroke.
/QUOTE]

I always wondered about that old saying, "Different strokes for different folks", and now I understand. My guess is he will never experience the chinewalk and Frank will end up on eBay or CL. What a shame!

Oh well, now it's time for some TIG'ing. Good luck with the new project. I'm already hooked!