How much grease do you put in your hubs?

[bgc]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

I put in enough grease to insure the bearings have an adequate supply ?and that enough comes slingin out of the hub seal onto the underside of the fender to keep it from rustin??..whats one more pump gonna hurt?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

I agree, but according to Bearing Buddy there is a high enough delta T in the bearing housing to generate a pressure differential that sucks water past a seal rated to 6-8 psi. That would take a considerable delta T to generate. You have other problems that need to be addressed at that point.

The way I look at, if you have a good seal there is nothing to worry about. A properly lubricated bearing runs cooler and there is less chance of blowing a rear seal due to expansion.

I agree with all of that! What I don't agree with is that the bearing hub being completely full of grease is going to raise the temp much in a trailer hub. I measure the temps of my trailer hubs with an IR tool. They stay pretty darn cool considering that I have just stopped using my trailer brakes.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

Grease and temperature can develop tremendous hydrostatic forces.

At 780 RPM? Highly doubtful. Not not enough to lock things up. If it was spinning at 5K RPM my answer may be different.

 

[bigdee]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

At 780 RPM? Highly doubtful. Not not enough to lock things up. If it was spinning at 5K RPM my answer may be different.

You won't find many applications running 5k rpm that use opposed tapered bearings with a fixed preload. Many trailers use 12? wheels that turn >1200rpm but even lower speeds can create problems if there is no compensation for preload.

I quoted the following from literature I recieved while attending an engineering seminar on this very issue:
50% OF ALL FAILURES ARE DUE TO LUBRICATION ISSUES (contamination, inadequate
or excessive amounts, wrong lubricant)
30% OF ALL FAILURES ARE RELATED TO MOUNTING ISSUES SUCH AS TOO LOOSE OR
TOO TIGHT OF BEARING FITS
10% OF ALL FAILURES ARE RELATED TO STORAGE AND HANDLING PROBLEMS

REASONS FOR BEARING RUNNING HOT:
Wrong type of grease or oil (check manufacturers
specifications and maintenance records).
Inadequate amount of lubricant (check oil level and
grease amount or leakage through seals).

"Excessive amount of lubricant (oil is churning and not
draining or bearing and surrounding cavity are completely
filled with grease)."

Lack of internal bearing clearance (initial bearing internal
clearances too small for operating conditions or wrong
fits were used).
Application design problem (misalignment between shaft
housing bore, seats off taper or out-of-round, free-side
bearing not able to float).
External source (bearing is running hot due to proximity
to other heat generating equipment).

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

Why not provide a link from a manufacturer of tapered roller bearing to support your claims? If its an issue, they will have it documented.

WOW...These guys totally missed the over greasing failure cause. This company must not know much about bearings:http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/maintdiag/Documents/6347.pdf

Here is an company that sells products that have tapered roller bearings that tout being completely filled with grease:
http://resources.kamandirect.com/wo.../08/31/sealmaster-mounted-roller-bearings.pdf
"Grease filled labyrinth acts as a filter to exclude cantaminants"

 

[dingbat]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

Why not provide a link from a manufacturer of tapered roller bearing to support your claims? If its an issue, they will have it documented.

I did. Had you read post #3 and not been so hell bent to google info. to try and prove your point. Here it is again.

http://www.timken.com/en-us/solution...se_English.pdf

Volume 2 ? Issue 3
PROCEDURE FOR PACKING A
TAPERED ROLLER BEARING WITH GREASE
For best results, ample space is essential in the housing to allow room for excess grease to be thrown from the bearing and for heat dissipation. It is equally important to retain the grease around the bearing. Normally, the housing should be 1/3 to no more than 1/2 full of grease during bearing assembly.

Here is an company that sells products that have tapered roller bearings that tout being completely filled with grease:
http://resources.kamandirect.com/wo.../08/31/sealmaster-mounted-roller-bearings.pdf "Grease filled labyrinth acts as a filter to exclude cantaminants"

What does the design of a pillow block housing have to with the hub on your trailer? Do you run pillow blocks on your trailer? Unless you do, it is irrelevant to this discussion. Pillow blocks are a completely different critters. Completely different carrier design.

You're arguing with two trained professionals. You?re an electrical guy. Outside your use of bearing buddies, what credentials do you bring to this subject?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

I am just showing how having the hub full of grease is not going to leave your bearings locked up. You actually believe that?

That pillow block example is 2 opposed tapered bearings used on conveyors on rock quarries. But you are right not anything like a trailer. Probably has more load and spins faster than a trailer wheel.

You're arguing with two trained professionals. You’re an electrical guy. Outside your use of bearing buddies, what credentials do you bring to this subject?

I do consulting work occasionally for a company(on the electronics side) that does proffesional witness testimony for mechanical failures. My buddy there who is a mechanical engineer(MS, BS, FAA certified) and his boss who is a mech engineering professor(PHD) also disagree that a trailer bearing hub full of grease will lock up.

 

[bigdee]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

I am just showing how having the hub full of grease is not going to leave your bearings locked up. You actually believe that?

That pillow block example is 2 opposed tapered bearings used on conveyors on rock quarries. But you are right not anything like a trailer. Probably has more load and spins faster than a trailer wheel.

That example is of a SINGLE double row bearing...not opposed,they share the same inner & outer race and pre-load is not adjustable.
Pillow block bearings are also designed to be used for LOW to MODERATE speeds. They also have a relief vent so they cannot be over greased.

No one said that filling the cavity will always lock up a trailer bearing....it is just a possibility and is not normal procedure by engineering standards.

As an engineer you should understand and value data....the data I provided was directly from a major bearing manufacturer.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

Pillow block bearings are also designed to be used for LOW to MODERATE speeds.

These bearings are rated to 3,500 RPM which is WAY more than a trailer bearing and YES, these are two opposed bearings with seperate races and YES they are completely full of grease.

http://www.houstonbearing.com/pdf/hubcity-mounted-bearings.pdf
Page M-46

Preload is not what we are talking about. Assuming proper preload, does having a cavity full of grease lock up a bearing?

You always say this in your posts when this subject is brought up and other posters always question you on it including this thread. Lets see the data that you are referring to which mentions the bearings failing and locking up. I tried to find anything about it last night and I couldn't find it mentioned once.

In addition to Bearing Buddy reccomending to have the cavity full, the SPINDLE-LUBE axles do the exact same thing. They allow you to force grease from the inner bearing all the way out to the outer bearing therby filling the entire hub with grease. Why aren't the bearings on all these axles locking up?

 

[bigdee]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

These bearings are rated to 3,500 RPM which is WAY more than a trailer bearing and YES, these are two opposed bearings with seperate races and YES they are completely full of grease.

http://www.houstonbearing.com/pdf/hubcity-mounted-bearings.pdf
Page M-46

This is not the same example that was in your previous post,however this is still a single,double row bearing. There is one inner race and the outer races are fixed into position by external snap rings to the housing making this ONE integral unit.
I DO NOT like peeing contests. This forum is for sharing information and not trying to bully or put people down. I have never had such an unproductive conversation like this with an engineer before.
I apologize to the original PO and everyone else on this forum for this tangent and this is my final reply to bruce.

 

[scooper77515]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

That spindle lube setup is what I had on my last hubs. I think that is why the bearing buddies and caps kept popping off, because the hub was made for a rubber plug, instead.

I should have kept the plugs and never had all these problems.

 

[ricohman]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

As a mechanic, I have serviced thousands of hubs. Not so much lately due to unit hubs which last 100 000kms with zero maintenance.
And unit hubs are packed completely full of grease.
I remember when I was taught how to pack a hub. Just enough to coat the inside and keep it from rusting. Anything else was just a waste of grease.
So either way will work fine.

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

well I am off on a 400 mile tow today and I will wait and see if my hubs sheer off and catch flame and set my boat on fire, and yes I am running the dreaded 10 inch wheels on my toon trailer. maybe I should hire some on to ride in the toon holding a fire extinguisher.

 

[Mel Taylor]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

I've been running Bearing Buddies on my boat trailer since 1984. I've always kept the hubs as full of grease as possible. I've made numerous 485 mile trips to my favorite fishing lake in Mexico. Sometimes the trip out is made in two days with an overnight stop en route, but the trip home is always a one day trip with stops only to change drivers, gas up or grab a fast food sandwich to eat on the fly. Air temperatures range from moderate to blazing hot depending on the season.

Hubs are felt at every stop and never once has there been any indication of overheating, even in the hottest weather. Even, I might add, during the one trip when I used the wrong kind of grease - the fibrous kind.

Only once in all those years have I found, during the annual checking and repacking ritual, any evidence of water getting into the hub. And, that was really minor.

BTW, along with the long Mexican trips, most years there has been numerous shorter trips to two other lakes, one fifty miles one way and the other roughly eighty miles one way.

 

[bigdee]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

I've been running Bearing Buddies on my boat trailer since 1984. I've always kept the hubs as full of grease as possible. I've made numerous 485 mile trips to my favorite fishing lake in Mexico. Sometimes the trip out is made in two days with an overnight stop en route, but the trip home is always a one day trip with stops only to change drivers, gas up or grab a fast food sandwich to eat on the fly. Air temperatures range from moderate to blazing hot depending on the season.

Hubs are felt at every stop and never once has there been any indication of overheating, even in the hottest weather. Even, I might add, during the one trip when I used the wrong kind of grease - the fibrous kind.

Only once in all those years have I found, during the annual checking and repacking ritual, any evidence of water getting into the hub. And, that was really minor.

BTW, along with the long Mexican trips, most years there has been numerous shorter trips to two other lakes, one fifty miles one way and the other roughly eighty miles one way.

Bearing Buddies are the way to go.....I would not have a boat trailer w/o them. There is not a better method to keep water out.

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

I agree with all of that! What I don't agree with is that the bearing hub being completely full of grease is going to raise the temp much in a trailer hub. I measure the temps of my trailer hubs with an IR tool. They stay pretty darn cool considering that I have just stopped using my trailer brakes.

I use buddies (filled as directed by the instructions), with the spindle seal kit and measure my hub temps with a raytech gun at beginning and end of travel. Nice and cool to and from the lake (hour each way). Never had any issues (summer fun in central AZ).

 

[ricohman]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

Bearing Buddies are the way to go.....I would not have a boat trailer w/o them. There is not a better method to keep water out.

I think quality components in a conventional hub will do just as good a job anyday.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

Bearing Buddies are the way to go.....I would not have a boat trailer w/o them. There is not a better method to keep water out.

I prefer the through spindle design - then you don't have that big heavy cap to deal with and the grease actually gets directly to the rear bearings.

 

[Mel Taylor]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

I think quality components in a conventional hub will do just as good a job anyday.

Probably one method is as good as another for the average boater or fisherman. My father (of blessed memory) simply had the bearings checked and packed every year or so by someone competent to do a good job. He never had Bearing Buddies and never had any problems with either hubs or bearings.

OTOH, his longest trip pulling the boat was around eighty miles one way. I don't know if whoever packed the bearings for him filled the hub with grease or not. I suspect not.

 

[CoffeeHound]

Re: How much grease do you put in your hubs?

After 60 years of doing automotive and trailer bearing , mostly on my own equipment , i am a firm beleiver in :

1 . Quality name brand hubes from a respected company .
2. Quality Races and bearings from top line bearing companys .
3. That all else (spindles , axles , springs and shocks) are secured, allined true, and functioning as designed.
4. That the best grease avaiable ( regular or synthetic ) is used .
5. That bearing are hospital clean before lubing, and no dents dings or oops were involved !

2500 hours is not unheard of on properly maintained bearings.
Contact your manufactor for recommended service periods .