LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

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chriscraft254

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Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

Latest project with the led lights. This is on top of my dads boat. He wanted something like some of the tugs around here have. Just a shadow box with rgb lights installed. He will be able to turn each side a different color if he wants so he can have green and red to match his running lights. Plus of coarse like 30 other colors.


 

chriscraft254

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Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

These are not very good pics, but this was the project in my brothers boat. Crown with rgb led lights that shine out around his ceilings.

 

NYBo

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Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

These are not very good pics, but this was the project in my brothers boat. Crown with rgb led lights that shine out around his ceilings.
That's his BOAT?? How big is that baby?
 

lil buggy

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 24, 2011
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Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

Latest project with the led lights. This is on top of my dads boat. He wanted something like some of the tugs around here have. Just a shadow box with rgb lights installed. He will be able to turn each side a different color if he wants so he can have green and red to match his running lights. Plus of coarse like 30 other colors.



That rocks bro!
lookin great
 

HoosierShooter

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Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
45
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

Nice thread on LEDs, these strip lights are great and have a multitude of uses.

I will be installing some 5050 300 rgb strips on my boat when I get the restoration to that point. I installed a reel on the awning of my travel trailer this spring and love them compared to the ugly rope lighting I used to use. Since I installed mine I have ordered 6 more sets for people at the campgrounds and installed a few on awnings. The LEDs look great! For those of you with courtesy lights you can also conserve some power using the LED replacement bulbs like these, Amazon.com: 2pcs 42-SMD T15 12V LED Replacement Light Bulbs + STICKER 921 912 906 - White: Automotive

I replaced all of the lighting in my trailer with those, 22 bulbs all together, and I love the color and the low draw. I don't don't use the warm light, prefer the cool as it looks more like daylight to me.
 

LePirateVert

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Oct 17, 2013
Messages
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Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

Hi there,

I am new to the forum. Thanks for this GREAT posting that really sums it up nicely.

I am aware of many of the issues so we can go straight to the questions (in bold).
This is what I would like to do and my concerns/issues/queries:

  • Put RGB SMD 5050 5 meter strip on my 19ft catamaran sailboat for night sailing. The remote could set colours independantly. I could have red (port), green (starboard) and white (stern) though I am fully aware it is not recognized navigational lighting (which I already have)
  • FYI, I have chosen three places where strips should be safe: inside the port/starb hulls nof the cat (impacts are on the outside against the docks) and along the rear beam (aluminum extrusion like a mast, curved). I plan to use the adhesive back to temporarily hold the strip straight and silicone would hold it fast to the surfaces permanently.
  • Question: Is ip68 required for my application? I would use ip68 strips if it is required for immersion, but the casings are bulkier and thicker, much easier to catch and rip off (a serious tradeoff IMHO). I am also concerned about bonding to a silicone sheath as opposed to epoxy. This is not under a gunnel like most postings I see (very nice!), it is on the sides of the hull!
  • Perhaps ip65 with careful installation may work just fine for me? This would be thin and discrete for sure! If I cover the ends against the hulls where the wires will enter with bullet shaped caps, screwed and silicone pumped? I would then bead the top and bottom of the half round epoxy strip with marine grade silicone. This would protect the back of the strip (wire traces) from lakewater (maybe occasional saltwater) and mostly rain. The short life adhesive backing would be for temporary placement, to allow the silicone to set to the epoxy strip and the gelcoat of the hulls (adhesion should be really good). The question rather if the ip65 epoxy of the strip itself is waterproof enough to protect the delicate inner components. Does it really take the extra silicone sheath and extra layer of epoxy?
  • I plan to have lead-acid batteries in the hulls that will be solar trickle-charged daytime on the offshore floating platform where the boat is kept. IR motion sensor to light up the boat if intruders poke around with a short burst alarm sound. If the batteries drain during my outings, will I ideally need deep cycle batteries? Do they make small ones (or long thin ones) that will fit though 6in dia port hole? Humm... Motorcycle batteries? Other types (NiCad)?
  • My last question: Strip life in the sun?. On the hull sides, on the water, all summer, they will get UV blasted bigtime, from both sides. I would protect them for the winter for sure. Will they yellow? Do they shrink and split? Should they be covered daytime? Hummm.

I can post images an raytraced images and of the boat so you can get an idea of the project and the severety of the conditions. For now, I do not appear to have the rights to add attachments (new user). Need to figure out how that works...

Your feedback and wisdom will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance!
Paul.
 

chriscraft254

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Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
2,445
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

I would not use Ip65 on the exterior of the boat. Use the ip68 to be safe. Yes you could probably use the Ip65 but why take the chance? The Ip68 is not that much more expensive.

As far as the way you plan to mount them, I have no idea whether or not it will hold to the exterior of the hull or not, I'm guessing you will definitely have to use a bead of silicone or maybe even 4200 in that application. I think it will come down to how well you bond them under the rubrail and how much abuse they will take.

If you want different strips to be different colors you will need separate controllers for each strip and wire them separately to the separate control boxes.

Can't help you on the battery question other than these run off 12 volt systems. Trying to get a full size battery through that small an opening I'm guessing is not going to work. Maybe cut bigger access holes or locate elsewhere.

UV exposure I am sure over time will effect the epoxy and yellow it some if left out in the elements full time. Most of the lights I install are hidden from view and exposure to a certain extent.

If you have more questions on the lighting, feel free to ask here and I will try and point you in the right direction.

If you have other questions, it is best to start a new thread so the vast majority of people here have a chance to help you as well. Multiple heads are usually better than one. ;) Good luck with your project and welcome to iboats.

Hi there,

I am new to the forum. Thanks for this GREAT posting that really sums it up nicely.

I am aware of many of the issues so we can go straight to the questions (in bold).
This is what I would like to do and my concerns/issues/queries:

  • Put RGB SMD 5050 5 meter strip on my 19ft catamaran sailboat for night sailing. The remote could set colours independantly. I could have red (port), green (starboard) and white (stern) though I am fully aware it is not recognized navigational lighting (which I already have)
  • FYI, I have chosen three places where strips should be safe: inside the port/starb hulls nof the cat (impacts are on the outside against the docks) and along the rear beam (aluminum extrusion like a mast, curved). I plan to use the adhesive back to temporarily hold the strip straight and silicone would hold it fast to the surfaces permanently.
  • Question: Is ip68 required for my application? I would use ip68 strips if it is required for immersion, but the casings are bulkier and thicker, much easier to catch and rip off (a serious tradeoff IMHO). I am also concerned about bonding to a silicone sheath as opposed to epoxy. This is not under a gunnel like most postings I see (very nice!), it is on the sides of the hull!
  • Perhaps ip65 with careful installation may work just fine for me? This would be thin and discrete for sure! If I cover the ends against the hulls where the wires will enter with bullet shaped caps, screwed and silicone pumped? I would then bead the top and bottom of the half round epoxy strip with marine grade silicone. This would protect the back of the strip (wire traces) from lakewater (maybe occasional saltwater) and mostly rain. The short life adhesive backing would be for temporary placement, to allow the silicone to set to the epoxy strip and the gelcoat of the hulls (adhesion should be really good). The question rather if the ip65 epoxy of the strip itself is waterproof enough to protect the delicate inner components. Does it really take the extra silicone sheath and extra layer of epoxy?
  • I plan to have lead-acid batteries in the hulls that will be solar trickle-charged daytime on the offshore floating platform where the boat is kept. IR motion sensor to light up the boat if intruders poke around with a short burst alarm sound. If the batteries drain during my outings, will I ideally need deep cycle batteries? Do they make small ones (or long thin ones) that will fit though 6in dia port hole? Humm... Motorcycle batteries? Other types (NiCad)?
  • My last question: Strip life in the sun?. On the hull sides, on the water, all summer, they will get UV blasted bigtime, from both sides. I would protect them for the winter for sure. Will they yellow? Do they shrink and split? Should they be covered daytime? Hummm.

I can post images an raytraced images and of the boat so you can get an idea of the project and the severety of the conditions. For now, I do not appear to have the rights to add attachments (new user). Need to figure out how that works...

Your feedback and wisdom will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance!
Paul.
 
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nerys

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
41
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

One of the biggest issues with LED's is HEAT. heat is death to LED's (though less so to "color" led's)

if your debating between 30 and 60 per meter and your getting a controller stop debating. get the 60 and then "dim" it to the level of the 30. smoother light same brightness and your lumen per watt efficiency goes up and your heat dissipation goes up as well.

one of the primary problems with these kinds of LED's is they have no means of efficiently extracting the heat. (heat sink) the SMD's are an LED with ceramic around them. this ceramic sinks some heat but since you have it "encased" to make it waterproof its now insulated. SO use caution if you really crank up the brightness (power)

try to go LOWER power and simple "add more" led's to crank up brightness if that is what you want.

they will last longer and give you trouble free operation the cooler you can keep them. "underloading" led's will greatly extend their lifespan.

so if you want really bright go with a double strip of 60/m and dim it down big time. you get your super bright while running each LED at half or less its full power rating. less heat less dissipation issues less failures.

for things like bow and stern lights. I would shy AWAY from LED for these. instead get regular incandescent fixtures that take "standardized bulbs" and then replace those bulbs with LED versions of the bulb.

now if you do burn out an LED you can just replace the $5 or $10 LED 1156 bulb instead of replacing the entire $50 to $100 fixture.
 

nerys

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
41
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

Another thing to remember

Remember red is the only color good for underway if you plan on using these while on the move. Red does not effect your night vision.

this is largely a myth. red does not preserve night vision. LOW LUMENS preserves night vision.

low lumen white green blue or red will all work equally well.

now red does have advantages. (its easier to "do" something things under low lumen red than low lumen white for example) and red is naturally pretty dim in the typical bulbs we will buy.

but while a 100 lumen white light will destroy your night vision. SO will a 100 lumen red light. remember that.

so not only "go red" but go as DIM as possible to preserve night vision.

ALSO strip life in the sun. GO with naked Strips in silicone sleeves. you DO NOT want the resin/epoxy coated ones. they will opaque and yellow in very short order if in direct sunlight.
 
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chriscraft254

Commander
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
2,445
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

One of the biggest issues with LED's is HEAT. heat is death to LED's (though less so to "color" led's)

if your debating between 30 and 60 per meter and your getting a controller stop debating. get the 60 and then "dim" it to the level of the 30. smoother light same brightness and your lumen per watt efficiency goes up and your heat dissipation goes up as well.

one of the primary problems with these kinds of LED's is they have no means of efficiently extracting the heat. (heat sink) the SMD's are an LED with ceramic around them. this ceramic sinks some heat but since you have it "encased" to make it waterproof its now insulated. SO use caution if you really crank up the brightness (power)

try to go LOWER power and simple "add more" led's to crank up brightness if that is what you want.

they will last longer and give you trouble free operation the cooler you can keep them. "underloading" led's will greatly extend their lifespan.

so if you want really bright go with a double strip of 60/m and dim it down big time. you get your super bright while running each LED at half or less its full power rating. less heat less dissipation issues less failures.

for things like bow and stern lights. I would shy AWAY from LED for these. instead get regular incandescent fixtures that take "standardized bulbs" and then replace those bulbs with LED versions of the bulb.

now if you do burn out an LED you can just replace the $5 or $10 LED 1156 bulb instead of replacing the entire $50 to $100 fixture.

Another thing to remember

Remember red is the only color good for underway if you plan on using these while on the move. Red does not effect your night vision.

this is largely a myth. red does not preserve night vision. LOW LUMENS preserves night vision.

low lumen white green blue or red will all work equally well.

now red does have advantages. (its easier to "do" something things under low lumen red than low lumen white for example) and red is naturally pretty dim in the typical bulbs we will buy.

but while a 100 lumen white light will destroy your night vision. SO will a 100 lumen red light. remember that.

so not only "go red" but go as DIM as possible to preserve night vision.

ALSO strip life in the sun. GO with naked Strips in silicone sleeves. you DO NOT want the resin/epoxy coated ones. they will opaque and yellow in very short order if in direct sunlight.

Thanks for your input and welcome to iboats and this thread discussion of LED lighting. You are correct, led lighting can be effected by heat eventually, but even ran at the highest output full time, they will last for many thousand hours without problems. If you ever did have an issue, the cost of replacement is so cheap it beats any other lighting source out there imo.

Now as far as your statement that red light does not effect night vision "is a misconception", I would say you have a misconception of the misconception, lol

Here is a simple and easy read on the subject for those that want the facts.Flashlight Reviews and LED Modifications

Imo, red and the right tone red is still the only color to run while you are underway at night on a boat or for tasks on the boat while trying to keep your night vision in tacked.

Last but not least, I would not recommend using the "naked" silicone sleeved strip lights over the epoxy coated or the ip68s. The extra protection of the epoxy is well worth it. The silicone sleeves actually over time get cloudy which is worse than that yellowing in the epoxy. Most times these are not mounted in direct sun anyway. The epoxy also makes it a lot harder to break or crimp the copper strip as well. The epoxy strip lights can also be imbedded in epoxy on certain applications which is nice. The epoxy though it is an insulator imo still dissipates the heat by spreading it across the epoxy coated light strip and allowing the heat to dissipate. That's one that I'm sure could be disputed though. Just my opinion. :)

The fact is, no matter how much heat dissipates or doesn't, these lights don't generate a high amount of heat to begin with compared to other light sources. Normal operating temps are usually not above 50 to 60 degrees.
 
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nerys

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
41
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

Heat is relative. White LED's can begin incurring damage at 95'F they can begin incurring RAPID damage at 105-110' (depends on the LED the phosphor used etc..)

you "think" led's don't make much heat usually because we compare them to incandescents which reach hundreds of degree's. an LED can degrade at not much higher than body temperature.

I have seen under cooled LED's die in as little as 150 hours of burn time. The power was within "spec rating" but that spec rating assumes adequate cooling. and while this is lower for SMD's (they are much more resilient) the normal accepted stander is 9 square centimeters of passive cooling surface area "PER WATT" how many square centimeters is that 1meter long strip consuming 15 watts? it should be 135 square centimeters. in reality its maybe what? 20 square centimeters and its INSULATED (worse)

now. COLOR led's have no phosphur and are far more resilient to "heat death"

while they do not generate much heat relative to an incandescent bulb they DO generate a lot of heat.

80% ! you read that right. on average 80% of the input power is dissipated as HEAT. but wait LED is so efficient. IT IS. 99% or more is the number for incandescents :) (its not that bad but you get what I am saying)

and while they don't make much relative heat they also have a much lower TOLERANCE for that heat.

The silicon suggestion was for the SUN EXPOSED led's not for the water exposed led's the resins they use will opaque. in 6 months to a year those led's will put out almost no usable light as the resin will have turned nearly opaque. this is what usually kills "solar lights" the encapsulated solar cell opaques till it can't get any light to charge the battery any more. its why I only buy solar that is "bare" glass no encapsulation.

just be careful. Silicon is more stable in sun than epoxy resins typically are (at least the cheap resins these manufacturers use) and in theory you could replace the silicon cheaper than replacing the whole thing. (in theory)

Hmm I was not aware the silicone sleeves went cloudy. cheap silicone too I guess. that sucks. I wonder if we can coat them in a UV blocker or some sort (the epoxy ones) its the UV that does the damage.

what makes red so usable for night vision is its very easy to make "dim" red light.

its pretty hard to make "dim" white light. what is saving your night vision is the dimmness not the color. it just by coincidence is easier for us to make dim red light and we have red sensitive cells near the center of the eye.

but this is not night vision. in fact the best color for night vision and fast recovery of night vision is blue green. not red.

intensity is far more important than "color" any which way.

a good read on the subject is here

Night Vision - The Red Myth (hint I do some casual stargazing so this issue comes up a lot)

FYI if you can "see" in front of you your not using night vision. actual night vision results in you being effectively "blind" to anything direction in front of you since you only have cones looking directly in front of you ie no rods (night vision comes from your rods)

ACTIVATING cones "deactivates" rods. so to activate your night vision rods you need to "DEACTIVATE" your cones. light intensity (not color) is what activates cones and this is what you need to avoid.

if I shine my red flashlight in your face your night vision is just as toast as if I shined a white flashlight in your face.

Not to nitpick but it is important.

"Now as far as your statement that red light does not effect night vision "is a misconception", I would say you have a misconception of the misconception, lol "

I never said that. I said red light does not preserve night vision. DIM LIGHT preserves night vision. color "can" effect night vision "recovery" time (how long it takes you to get it back) and for that blue green is the best color. again as dim and as short a length as possible.

back to led's

LED's of this sort can be very expensive. not in "dollar cost" but in "labor cost" to remove and reinstall.

any led's that lasts thousands of hours will never be bought by me every again. My minimum standard is 50,000 hours. if I suspect it won't last at least that long I won't buy it.

I am thinking of using aluminum channel. ok heat sink and would greatly ease maintenance if an issue arises.

I am a huge fan of LED's I really really like led's I have 85% of my home converted to LED and about 50% of my business converted to LED.

all my car's are led except for the headlights (and I am working on that too) since lower power in the car equals higher fuel economy. (currently averaging 62mpg trying to push it over 70mpg)

SO don't get me wrong I LOVE LED's but knowledge is half the battle. knowing means you can save yourself time effort money and labor down the road.

I REALLY wish I had a boat as nice as your guys boats :) hehe but mine will also get the LED treatment. I especially want to try and do some rub rail lighting to "light up the hull and water line" around the boat for nice effect. maybe even some underwater lighting. durability and protection are the issue their.
 
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icyveins

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
156
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

do these light strips have a built in dimmer or do they need a separate control for diming?
I am going to purchase tonight hopefully have them by the weekend
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,591
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

do these light strips have a built in dimmer or do they need a separate control for diming?
I am going to purchase tonight hopefully have them by the weekend
If you buy the single color lights, which I prefer, there are a lot of PWM dimmers out there.

I am going to be putting blue LEDs strips in my pontoon and will get one of these:

Hi Q Pulse Width PWM DC Motor Speed Regulator Controller Switch 6V 90V 15A New | eBay

I know it says for DC motors. It will work fine for LEDs as well.

You can use something like this as well:
DC 12V Single Color Adjust for 5050 3528 LED Light Strips Dimmer Controller US | eBay

What I like about the first one is you can put the pot anywhere, like your dash, and have the module located remotely.

This is pretty cool too:
Wireless RF LED Single Color Wall Dimmer 12 24VDC | eBay
Would have worked well in my house. I have a lot of LED strip lights in my house.

Not sure what LED strip you are planning on getting but I totally agree with this:
if your debating between 30 and 60 per meter and your getting a controller stop debating. get the 60 and then "dim" it to the level of the 30.
 
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ben2go

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
411
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

If you buy the single color lights, which I prefer, there are a lot of PWM dimmers out there.

I am going to be putting blue LEDs strips in my pontoon and will get one of these:

Hi Q Pulse Width PWM DC Motor Speed Regulator Controller Switch 6V 90V 15A New | eBay

I know it says for DC motors. It will work fine for LEDs as well.

You can use something like this as well:
DC 12V Single Color Adjust for 5050 3528 LED Light Strips Dimmer Controller US | eBay

What I like about the first one is you can put the pot anywhere, like your dash, and have the module located remotely.

This is pretty cool too:
Wireless RF LED Single Color Wall Dimmer 12 24VDC | eBay
Would have worked well in my house. I have a lot of LED strip lights in my house.

Not sure what LED strip you are planning on getting but I totally agree with this:

I am looking at doing some auto lighting with those that change colors.$20-30 is preety cheap for a custom touch to anything that floats or rolls.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
50,361
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

quick question now that I am jumping into adding the RGB strips to our boat.

How does the self adhesive strip hold up?

I am considering pulling the strips thru acrylic tubing, or pvc tubing to act as a diffuser, as well as a secure method to mount the strips using screw mount zip ties. This way I can attach to areas where I have carpet (inside the cabin) or where there is fiberglass or vinyl in the boat.

I would then seal the ends of the tube just to prevent dirt and moisture. I am looking more for a secure mount and diffuser technique since the strip lights are already waterproof and submersible

Thoughts?

I am quickly finding that mounting the lights costs more than the lighting itself.
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

How does the self adhesive strip hold up?

Funny you ask as I was just about to post up the same question... :lol:

I have 16' of LED lights with the 3M double sided tape to install, and I'm under the impression that I'll need to use the 3M adhesive promoter to ensure a good bond.

I'm curious as to what others have to say about how the tape holds up, with and without the adhesive promoter.
 

icyveins

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
156
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

Funny you ask as I was just about to post up the same question... :lol:

I have 16' of LED lights with the 3M double sided tape to install, and I'm under the impression that I'll need to use the 3M adhesive promoter to ensure a good bond.

I'm curious as to what others have to say about how the tape holds up, with and without the adhesive promoter.

the tape on the back of the RGB is worthless, I took the backer off and attached the strips to the bottom of the top rail around my toon. I ended up burning up all the controllers because I believe somehow the contacts touched the rail and smoked a little black circuit inside. I ended up buying the 3m two sided insulated tape. its about a good 1/16 thick and worked well so far. I will have to see once it gets out into the warm air.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,591
Re: LED STRIP LIGHTING (Ins and outs info)

Bought some of these to hold ,my strip lights. I will be installing this weekend.
KLUSDE~1.JPG

Bought mine from 1000bulbs.com
http://www.1000bulbs.com/search/?q=klus&filter[attribute_family]=45+-+ALU
They seem to be the cheapest but I didn't search that long.
 
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