oddjobs troll returns

[QC]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

I think it is agreed by most that we can't and won't round 'em all up. I think it is agreed by most that very few measures will completely secure the border. I don't agree that Americans won't do any job for the right price. I would . . . Soooooo, if we aren't gonna ship 'em back, and we don't think we can completely police the border, the ONLY thing that will work is to reduce the magnet . . . Illegal hiring practices. This is 100% our fault. Mine specifically as I am pretty sure that our gardeners don't have papers . . . To carry this further, if we are not gonna ship 'em back, and we don't want them on welfare, and we are going to police hiring practices, then we must allow some sort of work permits for those already here. My .02 and I am having a really hard time understanding what other answers there can be with or without some conciliatory speech and half baked plan from Bush.

 

[treedancer]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Make people that hire them run complete criminal background checks on them, if they don’t their fine doubles, plus they have to pay there fare back to there home countries.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Rubberfrog, it is low unemployment for those that WANT jobs.<br /><br />The lazy citizens dont want jobs, they want handouts. They wouldnt work if someone paid them 25 dollars an hour to dig holes.<br /><br />Ken

 

[Twidget]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Ken, the hole in that arguement is that with the illegals working for such low wages many cant afford to work for less than minimum, overtime without extra pay, etc. Many of the jobs the illegals do are the jobs younger Americans used to do. <br /><br />In my area there are plenty of people that for one reason or another dont have high school diplomas. They have a problem finding work, because they are only qualified for the jobs "Americans wont do". The big hangup besides the pay is their inability to speak Spanish. So, you have Americans in the US than are unable to work because the cant speak friggin Spanish.

 

[heycods]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

---------------------------------------------------Twiget said:-----------------------------<br />Ken, the hole in that arguement is that with the illegals working for such low wages many cant afford to work for less than minimum, overtime without extra pay, etc. Many of the jobs the illegals do are the jobs younger Americans used <br /><br />Heycods said: but our govt regs wont allow them to hire the kids now, to dangerous. you gott read these oSHA rules. I will admit I have only read the ones that refer to farm work, but it leaves no doubt what the others are like.

 

[Twidget]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

That is probably true for minors. <br /><br />I was was speaking of some adults I know. They had circumstances of one type or another that didnt allow them to go to college and are trying to get work at some of the more 'menial' jobs. They are in the 18-25 range.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

twidget<br /> each one of those 18-25 year olds can pick melons, bale hay,pick peaches and cut cabbage as well as pick apples in the fall.<br /> the hours are brutal, the conditions are nasty and extensive travel is involved.<br /> there are no bennies and not a lot of pay much less pay raises or retirement plans.<br /> ya also have to drive a hoopdi, no credit cards, no home, no permmant schools for the kids.<br /> and moving every couple months is the normarl life.<br /> not many americans left that wish to do that job.<br />in my area labor,especially day labor is incredibly hard to find.<br /> I have some cousins that have been known to hire illegals, they even helped some get legal worker status, they show up 30 min before work, take breaks and make calls only on break times and stay sober all day.<br />so yes in the past 30 years this problem has been growing and has been basically ignored by the past 4 administrations. other than pandering like monday nights speech not much was done and now its gonna be painful and expensive to fix.<br /> I dont think a two week rotation by the gaurd is gonna help much.<br />but so far there is no plan, still mostly talk.

 

[QC]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Another big day at the dock. I am pretty much in sync with rodbolt <br /><br />I do believe that the same people and others will do those jobs. Yes, age will make a difference due to family growth etc. All that says to me is that the impact on the economy will be very gradual. The part that scares me most is the negative impact on home prices. IMHO this area will implode if CA's rate of population growth slows and there is an associated dip in housing prices.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> ... what a stupid speech. 18 min of wasted air time.

Oh. You saw though that, did you?!?

 

[txswinner]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Ken you said<br /><br />Rubberfrog, it is low unemployment for those that WANT jobs.<br /><br />The lazy citizens dont want jobs, they want handouts. They wouldnt work if someone paid them 25 dollars an hour to dig holes.<br /><br />My feelings are that if the employer pays the taxes and withholds from the workers taxes you might be on point. The bottom line is the employers are stealing from you and committing a felony by not paying taxes. Why do they think they should pocket the tax money when you and I have to pay our share.<br /><br />Hang the employers of illegals, It is illegal to hire illegals, and it is illegal not to withhold income tax and social security, yet we continue to over look this.<br /><br />Cool troll odd.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

So let's keep the illegals but deport the employers.

 

[Gone]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

I'm hung up with the problem that the border leaks like a seive. Anything else that we do is wasted without fixing the leak first. The balloon will keep growing until the spigot is turned off!<br />I see Bush's plan as woefully insufficient to solve the leak. He put an insufficient number of NG in the wrong place. I don't think that his heart is in it!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

and therein lies the problem. the amount off illegals that are in country already is enormous. if you suddenly shut off their ability to work and feed themselves they become desperate, some having travelled several thousand miles through greater desperation will have no compunctions to resort to stealing.<br /> desperation can and will turn a law abiding citizen into a thief.<br /> its a tough issue and one it disgusts me to see turned into an election year pander party.<br /> and its not the first time not enough have been sent in.<br /> the cost upfront to detain,process and transport a minimum of 11 million people is beyond comprehension. low range estimates are 1000-1500 dollars per detainee and that does not count the cost of the detention centers that now need to be built.<br />its not just the current admin its the past 30 years of them, this one has been in place over 6 years and did less than the previous 24 years.<br />so yes I watched the speech, yes I agree with most of what W said, however it was an 18 min waste of air time.<br />had he been interested he could have stated construction on the detention and border stations 6 years ago.<br />but he wasnt and isnt and after november it will show.

 

[QC]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Now we're out of sync again. You really think we should build detention centers to house 11 million detainees as they're processed? You better get a big honkin' fleet of busses to go along with it, probably a huge litter of hound dogs to sniff 'em out, plus you're gonna need 22 million large tie wraps for handcuffs . . .<br /><br />It's not the spigot, it's the magnet . . .

 

[rodbolt]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

why not just shoot anyone that speaks with an accent and has dark hair, would be quicker.

 

[KRS]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Plug the border, it's a problem.<br /><br />Penalizing the employers and ignoring the border amounts to making the possession of drugs illegal, but not going after the dealers... it just doens't make any sense.<br /><br />I think it took this long because we were gathering data about the border. We weren't the only ones with a blind eye turned to the border, everyone was. Some of my best buds are border patrol agents... and they work plenty hard. But you can't patrol countless miles of border with 2,000 (or whatever the number on the desert SW is) agents, working 3 shifts plus training/vacation/sickness, etc.<br /><br />One of my buds told me that the current number of agents, lined up across the border, extending their arms, would have 75 miles between their hands... it's not enough. And I think that the guard is a great solution.

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

I think we should do like 18rabbit's line says "shoot all of the lawyers". If we do that there won't be any frivolous suits brought, it will shut off the endless supply of senators and congressmen.We can then get people in office that will do things the right way instead of debating the letter of the law. In the mean time we need to get the illegals paying Social Security so I can retire quicker......

 

[POINTER94]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

If we need a few buses to help deport, I hear New Orleans has a couple, hardly used. We can hire illegals to drive them.

 

[KRS]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> If we need a few buses to help deport, I hear New Orleans has a couple, hardly used. We can hire illegals to drive them.

that provided my much needed lift for the day.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: oddjobs troll returns

This is freakin funny..... Kinda like Drug dealers saying to the police arresting aint gonna stop us from dealing cuz we will finda away to do it anyway........ I love this qoute from the bottom of the artical <br /><br />"On the border with Arizona, bedraggled migrants who had been turned back by the border patrol said that more fences would not keep them from crossing but only make smugglers charge more money for the trip.".......<br /><br /> I say good and one day it will become to expensive to come here and you will stay home. <br /><br /><br />MEXICO CITY - Mexico and four Central American nations condemned the U.S plan to build hundreds of miles of triple-layered fencing on its southern border, saying it would not stop illegal immigration. <br /><br /> <br />In a joint news conference in Mexico City late Thursday, the foreign ministers of Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Mexico said that building barriers was not the way to solve problems between neighboring nations.<br /><br />"The position of Mexico and the other countries is that walls will not make a difference in terms of the solution to the migration problem," said Mexican Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez.<br /><br />On Wednesday, the U.S. Senate approved a proposal to build 370 miles of triple-layer fencing along parts of the 2,000-mile border separating the U.S. and Mexico. The Senate also agreed to give many illegal immigrants a shot at U.S. citizenship.<br /><br />Guatemalan Foreign Minister Jorge Briz said major immigration reform in the United States was the only way to stop the wave of people heading northward.<br /><br />"All of us are looking for a comprehensive migratory regulation so that millions of Latin Americans can continue working in and supporting the United States economy," Briz said.<br /><br />Earlier Thursday, Mexico's Foreign Relations Department sent a note to the U.S. State Department outlining the nation's concerns about the proposed barrier.<br /><br />Honduran Foreign Minister Milton Jimenez said he expected several South American and Caribbean countries to join Mexico and the Central Americans in issuing a joint declaration on the matter soon.<br /><br />In December, the U.S. House approved a bill to build a fence about twice as long as the one approved by the Senate. The House plan sparked a wave of criticism from Latin American leaders, with Mexican President Vicente Fox comparing such a barrier to the Berlin Wall.<br /><br />Fox reiterated his criticisms on Thursday.<br /><br />"Building walls, constructing barriers on the border does not offer an efficient solution in a relationship of friends, neighbors and partners," Fox said in the border city of Tijuana. "We will go on defending the rights of our countrymen without rest or respite. With passion we will demand the full respect of their human rights."<br /><br />On the border with Arizona, bedraggled migrants who had been turned back by the border patrol said that more fences would not keep them from crossing but only make smugglers charge more money for the trip.<br /><br />"I had to leave my three children, walk for three days in the desert, and now I'm here with more debts than ever," said Edith Martinez, a 40-year-old from Oaxaca who walked back over the border bridge to the Mexican town of Nogales. "Now I have to work in the United States to pay my debts from the trip."