Use the Sherman anti-trust act

[QC]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

PW2,<br /><br />You'd be surprised how much I agree about the infrastructure stuff, and that is one of the reasons that I don't believe in Hydrogen. With that said, there are many examples in the past that disprove both of our opinions (us Hydrogen, you innovations). The first liquid fuels had no infrastructure either yet they got going without Gov't assistance I think. Automobiles themselves are contradictory to your comment about slight variations, unless you consider an automobile as a slight variation of a train which was a slight variation of a horse . . . <br /><br />On your last point, it is the flaw in my faith. On a professional level I argue for funding alternate fuels infrastructure every day, but I don't really believe in the need for that support privately. I am still grappling with this issue. We (alt fuels industry) often say that Petroleum has had a 100 year head start on us, so we just need the playing field evened. But is that really true? I still think that with enough of an economic driver ($25 a gallon?) big stuff will happen. Yes, our economy will suffer and/or change. This species is pretty darn resilient. I just don't believe we will all self destruct and that our kids will hate us even as destructed as we are. I am more concerned about people blowing me and my family up than I am about a big implosion of my life due to fuel

 

[DJ]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

On your last point, it is the flaw in my faith. On a professional level I argue for funding alternate fuels infrastructure every day, but I don't really believe in the need for that support privately. I am still grappling with this issue. We (alt fuels industry) often say that Petroleum has had a 100 year head start on us, so we just need the playing field evened. But is that really true? I still think that with enough of an economic driver ($25 a gallon?) big stuff will happen. Yes, our economy will suffer and/or change. This species is pretty darn resilient. I just don't believe we will all self destruct and that our kids will hate us even as destructed as we are. I am more concerned about people blowing me and my family up than I am about a big implosion of my life due to fuel <br />

QC, made some valid points. Petroleum infrastructure did NOT happen-overnight.<br /><br />What are WE willing to put up with as we make a change in fuel??? My guess-nothing.<br /><br />With that said, why change-for now-immediately?<br /><br />As said, in other posts, we ARE NOT the sole culprit for so called global warming.<br /><br />Can we be "energy independant"? Sure.<br /><br />But, will you/we pay the price? I suspect-not.<br /><br />We have so many options, with today technology, it's mind boggling.<br /><br />But, we want our vehicles to go fast and pull/carry BIG loads.<br /><br />It's a "Catch 22".<br /><br />Government is sure as HE!! not the answer. We Americans like our freedom and we will NOT cowtow to some third world gross polluter telling us to "clean up our act".<br /><br />But, if they "whine" enough, we will capitulate. <br /><br />God help us. We are are own worst enemy.

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

I know I'm going to get whacked for this but I may as well throw my 2 cents worth in..... I think if we factor in how much everything else has gone up in price $3.00 gas isn't that bad, also if we would have kept drilling in Alaska instead of caving into the environmentalists we could be much closer to being oil independent, and lastly I seem to recall reading how much gas and diesel it takes to make ethanol. Corn has to be planted, harvested, hauled, refined, etc. Alaska is still our best opportunity to be more independent. I have watched the Caribou grazing along the pipeline and the birth rate actually increased instead of decreased after it was built.There is no reason that we can't drill in ANWAR and keep the area safe.

 

[QC]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

No whack from me. I agree 100%

 

[Speedwagon]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

Originally posted by rottenray6402:<br /> I know I'm going to get whacked for this but I may as well throw my 2 cents worth in..... I think if we factor in how much everything else has gone up in price $3.00 gas isn't that bad, also if we would have kept drilling in Alaska instead of caving into the environmentalists we could be much closer to being oil independent, and lastly I seem to recall reading how much gas and diesel it takes to make ethanol. Corn has to be planted, harvested, hauled, refined, etc. Alaska is still our best opportunity to be more independent. I have watched the Caribou grazing along the pipeline and the birth rate actually increased instead of decreased after it was built.There is no reason that we can't drill in ANWAR and keep the area safe.

From what I recall of it, the area they wanted to do the drilling in is tundra. And IIRC from awhile ago, there's not a whole lot living in a tundra.<br /><br />So I never really saw the problem with drilling there. There should be stiff penalties for negligence, to avoid contamination of the area. But it's not like just drilling and pumping oil is going to contaminate the whole area.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

Amen brother ray!

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

PW,<br /><br />Viagra was discovered by accident while they were looking for a blood pressure medicine. Lets say it was fast tracked by the FDA for approval. Lots of happy people because of it.... <br /><br />Good thing we are not drilling off the coast of Florida, Cuba, working with China can now harvest it. Go Environmentalists.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

If we need more refineries why is none of these huge profits being used to build them in the US all you W lovers and oil mongers name one.

 

[DJ]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

TXS,<br /><br />As powerful as you think the EVIL Republicans are, they can't get past the lefty fringe (Gulfstream environmentalists), and the EPA. Your parties legacies.<br /><br />You have no right to biotch. Your policies have come home to roost. Pay up!

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

Puhleez! The rehubs been in power 6 years...<br />Pick a fight, get in a war & can't get new legislaton for a new refinery? <br />Quit blaming treehuggers when the real culprit: elected officials whose agenda is lining their pockets with money from corporate oil profit...<br />All I hear is whining about envirnomental laws...<br /> ...JK

 

[QC]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

Just to help put the refinery permit thing in perpective, the natural gas vehicle gang can't get a refinery (liquifier) permitted to make Liquid Natural Gas (LNG). There is some little mouse type thing in the CA high desert preventing it, and LNG is something the Enviro Whackos want

 

[Speedwagon]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

Originally posted by RubberFrog:<br />

Originally posted by QC:<br /> 3) Even the Frogger has gone off the deep end with this one. How will $3.20 a gallon guarantee that your fuel comes from the US? Maybe a sign at the pump that says "This fuel is from 100% domestic supply" while the station across the street says "Our fuel is refined from oil from wherever we can get it and is .50 a gallon cheaper" Where do you think the line will form? See point #1

Why does everybody insist on misinterpreting what I said?<br /><br />I didn't say I want to pay 3.20 a gallon. I said if the difference was 2.70 for terrorist gas or 3.20 for freedom fuel, I would choose 3.20. Emphasis on the made in America part, not the price.<br /><br />I am not advocating artificially raising the price of anything. I am very familiar with econ 101, econ 102, econ 360 and econ 420. Don't get me started on Acct 101, 202, 310....<br /><br />I do practice what I preach and anytime I have a chance to buy an American product over a foreign one, even at a higher price, I take it. Remember how much I hate walmart?<br /><br />Unfortunately, many folks are too broke to be able to afford that sort of patriotism and are forced to shop at walmart and line up for QC's hypothetical 2.70 terrorist gas instead of the 3.20 freedom fuel.<br /><br />Was I clear enough that time? I'm not a liberal. Neither am I a Capitalista.<br /><br />edit: love your new avatar!

Simply a curiosity here, but does this effect your choice of gas stations as well?<br /><br />And I'll add that I just found this:<br /> Crude oil imports, by company, from the persian gulf <br /> US crude oil imports, by country

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

Thanks for those links. <br />As to your question- no it doesn't have an impact on where I buy gas. Interestingly enough, I usually fill up at a Citgo near my house and I see in your link that they do not import from the Persian Gulf.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

I can't beleive I just read all ofthis. I feel stupidier than when I started.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

That's the effect we were going for.

 

[KilroyJC]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

Y'know -the gas is the part that most of the public is aware of,..but nobody is saying anything about cutting back on the consumption of PLASTIC!<br /><br />You can't buy anything without it being blister-packed, shring-wrapped, or paking-pelleted. Not to mention how much of the product is comprised of plastic.<br /><br />And where do we get the plastic? <br /><br />OIL.<br /><br />A very good, close friend of mine who is hopelessly liberal (and who lives in a McMansion with more outside deck footage than my entire house, 4 cars etc etc - yet I'm the evil conservative) Recently told me that she learned something that she never knew - that plastic came from oil.<br /><br />Her husband works for a major computer manufacturing firm, and this relies on plastics to pay for that McMansion & all the other goodies.<br /><br />Let me tell you I had a hoot abusing her about all the things that she & her family rely on that are plastic, from the carpets, to the paints, to the juiceboxes, clothing, household chemicals, etc etc etc, then hit her with one of her favorite phrases of the past few years:<br /><br />"Now remember: No Blood For Oil!"<br /><br />She was not amused - I don't know why.<br />It's a good thing we're such good friends. . .<br /><br />Forget the gas - what about everything else?

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

How can you demonize "big plastic"? There in lies the problem.

 

[jimonica]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

Yeah, if your a Liberal, you better not even have indoor plumbing or stand the risk of being called a hippocrate.

 

[QC]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

I think that is a reasonable statement jimonica. I do that . . . I will comment negatively about an animal rights activist that has leather shoes, and I understand also that it is not required to be 100% consistent to hold an opinion. So, yes, unfair. Not sure what you do about it. The reverse is true also, you would and have called me out on inconsistencies. Part of the territory of holding a strong opinion? Maybe.

 

[jimonica]

Re: Use the Sherman anti-trust act

QC, if thats your real name. <br /><br />Who are you and what did you do with my friend QC? I can't believe it, I think we just agreed on two issues in the last week!