bye bye Boats and Guns???????

USS Neversail · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Interesting thread. To any Austrailians, I am curious . . . has not being allowed to own guns affected you personally? I believe carrying a weapon is a personal choice. I am glad the people that are against it don't carry them, because of the danger that comes with not knowing how to use a weapon. My thinking is that you never know when someone will attack - be it in a school, in a restaurant, in a skyscraper, or on the water. It may be partly from fear that I have weapons, but that is a fear that is born from hundreds of factual stories about murders, rapes, and attacks in general. I believe that because there is crime, I should be able to defend myself, my family AND my property. I don't believe this makes me a "fearful and little man. . . " nor do I believe that I need to feel power over another human being. Plain and Simple - I will not, repeat, WILL NOT, allow another person to kill or maim my family. If I were not prudent enough to have the means to protect my family and (God Forbid) lose someone in an attack, how would I feel then? Especially knowing that I COULD HAVE PROTECTED THEM. God Bless America and the Constitution of the United States. Jason

Ross J · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Jason, I certainly don't dissagree with your sentiments about owning firearms. I was licensed to, and did, carry a side arm when working in Australia. I had reason to fully **** it and point it at people once. This had the effect of them backing off and my wife and I removing ourselves from the situation. We were under attack at the time by a mob of blokes who made obvious their intentions. Without the weapons we would be dead. Having said that, we have not felt unsafe in New Zealand. I use firearms for hunting and target shooting, all my children can use with knowledge all my firearms. I am licensed to hold these firearms. To protect my family I would utilise anything legal or not. Ross

Beernutz · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Several years ago, a study was conducted in Orlando to determine why such a large percentage of hijacking incidents involved rental cars. Interesting survey....they actually asked perpetrators who had been caught. The result? Rental cars could be identified by the sequence of characters on the license tag. Most rental cars are driven by tourists, not local residents. The felons chose these targets, because most Florida residents are known to be armed. Visiting Canucks should be careful who they trust.

Capt. Bob · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

DJ · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Capt. bob, Hmmm, an unarmed cashcow, now that's a target!! Sort of like what our gov't wants to make all of us citizens-unarmed cashcows.

L Christopher · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

TxRiverRat: Thats great. I have an 82' Hobie 16 out back and my teenage boys have been bugging me to replace some rigging and refloat her. I can't wait to show them the modifications that are posibble.

Beernutz · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Capt.Bob, that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. Musta gotten reported differently up there. Guess they didn't want y'all draggin' your arsenal down here with you. Most tourists carry travelers checks or plastic. Rarely are any seen with cash. Many show up with a t-shirt and a $20 bill, and don't change either one.

Cast-Away · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Speaking of cash cows you will all get a chuckle out of this:

THE "TWO COW" EXPLANATION OF WHAT MAKES... A CHRISTIAN DEMOCRAT: You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor. A SOCIALIST: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor. AN AMERICAN REPUBLICAN: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what? AN AMERICAN DEMOCRAT: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righteous. A COMMUNIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk. A FASCIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage. DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow, which was a gift from your government. CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows. BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the milk down the drain. AN AMERICAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead. A FRENCH CORPORATION: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows. A JAPANESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You then create clever cow cartoon images called Cowkimon and market them World-Wide. A GERMAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You reengineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves. A BRITISH CORPORATION: You have two cows. They are mad. They die. Pass the shepherd's pie, please. AN ITALIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows, but you don't know where they are. You break for lunch. A RUSSIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka. A SWISS CORPORATION: You have 5000 cows, none of which belong to you. You charge others for storing them. AN INDIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You worship both of them. A CHINESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You have 300 people milking them. You claim full employment, high bovine productivity, and arrest the newsman who reported on them. AN ISRAELI CORPORATION: There are these two Jewish cows, right? They open a milk factory, an ice cream store, and then sell the movie rights. They send their calves to Harvard to become doctors. So, who needs people? AN ARKANSAS CORPORATION: You have two cows. That one on the left is kinda cute...

trollhole · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Well guys I never thought I would get so many responses to my post. I now understand why some people need to have a gun on board ( Rape, animals, big fish.) And for the most part this is on the extreme portions of the US and mostly in coastal areas. But this is what I find disturbing about some of the post. The fact that some people feel the need to have a gun on a lake or area where there is no danger of attack from wild animals or gangs(?) America is the land of the free and we have a lot of freedoms that other countries only wish they could have. I fully support your ability to defend yourself but only when there is just cause. Why do you need a gun out on a lake especially here in the United States? You can tell me about all the training you have had but accidents happen and the last thing we need is another accident and ruin someones life or family. It's bad enough that we have inconsiderate people out on our lakes with no respect for others. But its another thing to bring one more thing that can happen into the equation. Please think about leaving the guns at home. It may make you feel a little uneasy but it will make a lot of other boaters a lot safer.

This is just my opinion take it with a grain of salt

SS MAYFLOAT · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Trollhole, I have a rule that I go by when it comes to guns, rather it be in my home, auto, boat, or anywhere. They are out of site, but accessable and not chambered or loaded. I don't advertise that I have one because it ruins the element of surprise. I keep quite about what I may or may not have. Those that brag and talk about having them are the ones to be aware of. But you must realize that there are more guns out there than you may think. People who carry them for defense is not going to make everyone around aware that they have them. If they do, then they must be a REDNECK! Actually they are stupid and wanting to feel better than anyone else. I just wonder if the teachers at the schools where all those people were killed had carried guns, would there been less deaths? Or would it have ever happened? Just a thought......

495v · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

I knew this post was going to be a hot one; boats and guns. The only thing missing is chicks in bikini's. My 2 cents....if Illinois issued permits to carry a concealed, I'd already have one. I am a firm believer in right to bear arms. Alot of very good points in this post such as carrying it on the lake when you really don't need it and flaunting it around like your some bad dude. My only thought which I read somewhere in here, doesn't it always happen were when you need something you don't have it, and when you have it you don't need it! In addition, with more people carrying concealed, it makes the criminals think twice about who there going to rob or whatever. Just wish my wife shared my beliefs.

SCO · Aug 20, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Yep, good thread Troll. You make a compelling point about the accidental shootings. It has always been a controllable concern for the conscientious individual. There is little need for people to carry a gun. There is little need to buckle your seat belt but we all do because maybe once in your lifetime of driving, when you least expect it, you will need it. I don't think you have anything to worry about but worry itself. You are probably safer in the company of an armed citizenry. It's a deterrent if nothing else. With our 'merican social problems, a lot of unfriendly people think that what you have is rightly theirs, and those ranks seem to be growing. Yea, we have it good right now, but things change, look at history. The framers put these matters to careful consideration.

FlyBoyMark · Aug 21, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Troll...to consider for a moment that your safer for leaving your gun at home , FOR ANY REASON, that YOU THINK I should also as an individual.....you become dangerous to my freedom and yours.....

naughtybynature · Aug 21, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

thank god for freedom of speech eh flyboy? for the record, i am on the think the world would be a safer place without em side of this argument. thankfully we all can express our views and not be lock up for doing so. it's interesting up here in canada, as the gun lobby seems to mostly to protect one's right to hunt, not to protect one's family. hand guns seem to be a pretty rare animal around my parts. not sure if they they are even legal to own? at any rate, i encourage all to stand up for what they beleive in.

SCO · Aug 21, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

It seems to be coming down to 2 things, declaw all the cats or claw them . I really have no idea if declawing all the cats would work or not. To me, I worry about the mass vulnerability that would be created by depriving individuals of means to defense. The spark of the American revolution occurred as the British were heading over to Concord to confiscate arms. Had they been successful, we might be speaking German right about now.

SCO · Aug 21, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

No offence to England, they showed what they were made of during WWII, but our strength was needed then and it came from the blueprint laid out during revolutionary times.

Raghauler · Aug 21, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Trollhole, no flame intended, but for the sake of conversation: You say, "I fully support your ability to defend yourself but only when there is just cause. Why do you need a gun out on a lake especially here in the United States." How am I to conform to your emotional definition of "just cause"? Quite frankly, you do not fully support my ability to defend myself. Let me ask you How am I to know when I will or will not need any tool, be it a gun, a screwdriver or a knife? All are dangerous, especially if handled callously. Still, they are each a tool for a specific purpose. 90% of the time, the police arrive to take a report on a victim, never confronting the criminal. Why cant I exercise my Constitutional right to defend myself with a legal tool? Should we get rid of fire extinguishers because we are not likely to need them? I know they cause little risk, but Im sure at least one child has died from a fire extinguisher. Is it worth the risk to get rid of them all, because of the small risk to children? Youre emotional rationale seems to dictate that we should. You say, You can tell me about all the training you have had but accidents happen and the last thing we need is another accident and ruin someones life or family. How many gun accidents do you hear about on your lake? Not many? Certainly, every gun accident gets reported in the news, and this seems to me to be a non-issue. However, research suggests that more than 80% of the time when a criminal is turned away by an armed citizen, it goes unreported simply because brandishing the firearm without firing it stops the crime. Sure I am worried about ruining someone elses life or family, but what about mine? Just because you are worried about some non-issue doesnt mean my family is worthless, even if I seem paranoid to you. Your final thought: Please think about leaving the guns at home. It may make you feel a little uneasy but it will make a lot of other boaters a lot safer. How is that possible when, judging by this post, there are already a lot of guns out on the water and you didnt even know about it? You dont seem to have much experience with firearms. Let me finish by playing my favorite anti-gun game, Lets Pretend. Lets pretend all of the estimated 400,000,000 guns in the US are banned and confiscated. There, now we are all safe from the dreaded evil gun. I feel better. But wait, guns and ammo are old technology. One can make both in his basement VERY easily, very cheaply, and VERY quickly (Anyone remember zip guns?) Guess who is making them? The good guys? I think not. What a great place now that all the guns are banned, right? Dont Tread On Me.

Capn Mike · Aug 21, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Raghauler, I was preparing post in a similar vein, but you did it so much better. Thanks. Nevertheless, those who object to firearms seem to have a viseral reaction to guns, and no matter how much reason, education or evidence is presented, it doesn't seem to make a difference. That's why those of us who believe in this constitutional right defend it so fiercely; it's hard to change anti-gunners' emotions with logic (and obviously we gun owners reject any "logic" presented by those who would forbid firarms!) This may be the first time I've ever thought a blow boat dude had something good to say...

maybe we CAN all get along!!!

TxRiverRat · Aug 21, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

DJohns, my 1st target wouldn't even be PWCs - it would be the "caged boats" (AKA wakeboarders)... If everyone would just learn a little etiquette......

Capt. Bob · Aug 21, 2002

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

bye bye Boats and Guns???????

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