bye bye Boats and Guns???????

[DJ]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Capt. Bob,<br /><br />Very interesting statistics. One thing you left out. What is the population difference between the US and the other nations you cite? I would say-SIGNIFICANT.<br /><br />How many children drown each year? We're up to over 30 this year in Phoenix alone. Why, inattentive parents. Should we ban them, parents that is?<br /><br />How many die in fires? We've had plenty here this year. How many die in car accidents? Again, inattentive parents, in both cases.<br /><br />How many die due to child abuse? The list, unfortunately, goes on and on.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Hi dejohns, You mentioned about auto accidents. Last time I had checked that teens were reposonsible for around %35 of all fatalities in autos. That is 16,17,18,19 year olds. A span of four years versus 70+ years of drivers. I am not sure, but I think that is more than what the guns kill. Lets not let teenagers drive til they are 20. Yeah Right! Guns in the hands of children is the parents fault lacking the responsibility to keep control of their children.<br /><br />We all are fault in teaching our children not to obey laws. When my grandson asked me why does everyone go faster than the speed limit, I for once didn't have an answer. But it made me realize that this is a country that maybe the laws are not important until you are caught. Take a trip on an interstate, How many law abiding citizens do you see actually going the speed limit? This could be the one single most training aids to out children to break the law.<br /><br />My children was raised around guns, even my youngest shot his first rabbit at age 5. They know what a gun does and the distruction that it can cause. I feel that the movies and tv have alot to blame. Guns that can shoot continuously without loading, guys hiding behind a wall covered with drywall without a single bullet passing through, none of them seem to be a very good shot either. But when kids see this stuff they take it seriously. I feel that the movie makers should make it realistic, but that would take the excitement away and nobody would watch it. My family has never had an firearm accident, and as long as we practice safe usage of them, there will never be one.<br /><br />Check out my post in the Nothing to do with boats. It was something that we talked about in the shop today. It may be a hot topic too.<br /><br />Thanks everyone for your views, It has been wonderful.

 

[Capt. Bob]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

 

[kev_alaska]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Wow, Capt Bob, where do I start. You mention that you just want the statistics to be heard. Good enough. <br /><br />The fact is that gun related deaths are at a 30 year low and continue to drop. The oft quoted statistics you parrot are derived from sources that have been discredited in both scientific journals and in civil and criminal investigations nationwide. Both the Center for Disease Control and the AMA have had funding curtailed for advocating gun positions that are either not backed up by statistics or outside of their scope of responsibilities. The AMA's new president, Dr. Richard Corbin (formerly director of the Santa Monica arm of HCI) openly admits that he intends to change the AMA's scope to include firearm activism. He is opposed within his own group by Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership. Many of the studies credited to the Journal of American Medical Association were authored by Dr. Arthur Kellerman who has a record of selectively dorting data to aupport a preconcieved result. He has consistantly been discredited for selecting non-representative geographic areas that would support his theory. These holes in his credentials do not stop with gun issues, he has been discredited in several arenas...<br /><br />Americans for Hangun Safety (AGS) is the new name for the millionaire Andy McKelvey's failed Handgun Control Incorporated (HCI). They as you remember helped the clinton administration fund the Million Mom March that soon folded because of distorted views on the American public. AGS has no private members and actively opposes safety programs such as the "Eddie Eagle" program administered by the NRA. Americans for Gun Safety?<br /><br />The report "Broken Records" funded and distributed by AGS has been catagorized by PA Police Commissioner like this " AGS should be given a failing grade for shoddy research and inaccurate statements. At no time did they contact the State Police to obtain correct numbers."<br /><br />As to the charge of gun shows being a ground for terrorism, not one of the Sept 11 hijackers had a gun. AGS charges that Ali Boumelhem bought automatic weapons, explosives, grenades and rocket launchers for Hezbollah. You can't but them at gun shows anywhere...The report that AGS circulated came from the Middle Ease Intelligence report that our government held that showed him unloading these items in Beriut, not Michigan. The truth is that as a convicted felon, Ali was under survellience by Michigan authorities and as he attempted to purchase a firearm (illegally at a gun show) he was apprehended, charged and convicted. Nevertheless AGS did not hesitate to lie to the journalists and even to Congress in their attempts to shut down gun shows. <br /><br />Education is the key. Correct information is the key to education. Repeating distortions circulated by anti Second Amendment activists is the key to misunderstanding and distortion. <br /><br />Kev_Alask***

 

[DJ]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Kev,<br /><br />Nice read-Thanks.<br /><br />Capt. Bob,<br /><br />I won't for a minute sit here and try to tell you that guns are not dangerous, they certainly are. By the way, so are cars, boats, blenders and chainsaws.<br /><br />The issue with guns is that people have given up all of their personal responsibilty and laid it on the doorstep of government. Along with resposibility being thrown away, so is the ability to THINK.<br /><br />Too many today are glued to the tube and believe every bit of chrome plated crap that emits from it. Everything you see is based on emotion. Forget facts, emotion sells.<br /><br />Boats are an emotional item. You can tell by the the folks on this board that their boats are a part of them and they really enjoy the ability to do what they do with them. The same exists for shooters.<br /><br />I own plenty of firearms and they are safely locked away. I do not shoot that often, yet I enjoy it when I do.<br /><br />I am not willing to let the camel (government) get it's nose under the tent. Do you think government is getting smaller-I don't think so.<br /><br />As far as carrying a firearm while boating. As I mentioned before, I am the only one that knows I have it. And, I'm carrying it legally. Have I ever exposed it-no. Do I intend to-only if I'm SERIOUSLY threatened.<br /><br />Face it, our society is NOT what it used to be.<br /><br />I used to be able to leave home, when I was a child, in the morning and not return until nightfall. Were my children able to do that-a resounding NO!

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Guns are GOOOOOOD tools for boating. You can open beers with them. You can sink empty beers with them. You can aquire more beers from other boaters with guns... <br /><br />People don't go crazy and get a gun. They get a gun and go crazy...<br /><br />Because you can doesn't mean you should. I'm a shooter. Hunting, clays, markmanship. Proven abilities, keep my steel clean and safe too, AT HOME!<br /><br />I go boating to relax, guys, now I have to find a life-vest that's bullet-proof? <br /><br />How much freedom do you give up when you are afraid of Joe Schmoe Holsterful from Florida and what he might think of your interpretation of slow-no-wake?<br /><br />You don't need your gun if you have a big Johnson...

 

[sloopy]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

no guns, just knives lots of knives

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

capt bob and the kid can have a two four (that's a flat of 24 beers for you 'merican folks.... real beer too, you know, the 6.5% stuff) in my house anyday. no fear of them shootin my sorry *** . hehehehe this is the best post ever!

 

[Capt. Bob]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

 

[Beernutz]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Capt.Bob, Did a little research into your critique of my report on the Orlando study. Your "twist" was one of the theories, but it didn't hold water. It was "rental cars" that were being targeted, not all out-of-state tagged vehicles, which most certainly were also occupied by tourist cash-cows. But, there was no way for the perps to know what kind of armament these latter drivers might have brought in with them. In most cases, the rental drivers had flown in to the area, and were most likely unarmed.

 

[Capt. Bob]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

 

[trollhole]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Sloopy I'm with you!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />Okay here's my view, boats, cars, planes, knives all serve a purpose besides killing someone. Handguns do not they were designed to kill people. I like to hunt and have done it all my life (duck, deer, dove, and the elusive rabbit) I have owned guns all my life or at least since I was 10 when I got my first single shot 20 guage. I still own guns and personally have a 12guage sitting under my bed full of buckshot and slugs. But I have no children and when I do it will be locked up the moment that baby comes home. Everything that has been said about other equiptment killing people is very true and cars are one of them. But they also serve a very usefull roll in helping us get from place to place.<br />I have to tell you a story that happened to me about a year ago that really made me think about why we don't need guns out on our lakes.<br />Last year me and a college buddy were envited to go to a friends house out on the lake. So I wanted to take my boat and he wanted to take his. So we both took our boats out. When I got to the landing he had another friend with him. This guy was about 21. Well we preceded down the lake together me in my boat and them in theirs. Well we didn't exactly know where the house was since I had never been there by boat so we drove into the cove that we thought was it but couldn't see the houses because of the trees. I tried yelling up to see if anybody could hear me but nobody came down. So just as I was about to startup and drive down to the next one this 21 year old kid pulls out a 45 and shoots 3 shots up in the air. I hit the deck. I couldn't believe this idiot. I severly cussed him out and told him to put it away and never to bring it out again or I would call the game warden to have him arrested. Well we finnaly found our party and proceded to screw around out on the lake skiing and such. At the end of the afternoon we had both boats tied up in the middle of the lake talking and having a few beers watching the sun go down. Now at this point I have four of my friends in my boat and all of a sudden this kid procedes to put his gun out and wave it over my boat and we hit the deck. He proceded to fire three shots into the water. One guy went over into the water on the otherside and I procceded to untie my boat while cussing both my friend for bringing this idiot and this guy. We got my friend out of the water I dropped them off at their house and I drove to the landing without these idiots around me put my boat up and went home. <br /><br />Now you can say I should have done more and disarmed this kid but he had the gun and the last thing I was going to do is hang around him while I called the gamewarden and wait for him to show up. I figured all the other people at the lake had probably called and he was on his way.<br /><br />So would this had happened if there were no handguns, no. Would this had happened in anyother lake in the U.S., sure. Could he have killed someone unententially, sure. I live in South Carolina and yes we are a little dumber than the rest of the U.S. But it makes you think what would the world be like if we didn't have handguns. I guarantee you there would be a lot less deaths. <br /> <br /><br />It's just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.<br /><br />

 

[Beernutz]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Wow! Musta struck a nerve.<br /><br />Bob, the difference between you and me is that I don't have an agenda here. You are attempting to support a political point of view. I'm merely trying to lend some insight into the criminal mind. Accept it or don't. I don't care.<br /><br />The point is that if the perps had been merely targeting "tourists", as you suggested, why were rental cars involved in such an inordinately high percentage of the attacks? Thus, the reason for the study. The answer was that they were relatively certain that the occupants of the rental cars were unarmed.<br /><br />There, ya have it. Put any spin on it that you want.

 

[Capt. Bob]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

 

[Beernutz]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

You need to re-read your posts, Bob.<br /><br />You accused me of "twist"ing the story.

 

[trollhole]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

com'on guys no accusations just opinions, nobody here is right or wrong it just should be opinions.<br /><br />Can't we all just get along? <br /><br />Hey please read my gun story at the bottom of page one to get where I'm comming from on guns and boats. Thanks guys.

 

[SCO]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Up front, I hope we keep this civil. Progress is being made because all we get from the media is screaming. With regard to the rental cars, the view of the hydrophobic dope addict perp is unrealistic and frankly a patronizing view of of these criminals (they are poor products of their society that aren't responsible for their actions...is that it?). These are predators selecting easy prey. The tourists had just been screened for guns, and unless they brought them in checked baggage and pulled them out to the cab of the car when thay loaded their bags, then they were for sure unarmed. This surely is the twofer scenerio, tourists most likely to have cash and be unarmed. I am writing to make another point though, and that is about how the machinery of our society works. A police force of some type is required to stave off anarchy. This has always been true. Many of us think the primary front line responsibility for our safety belongs to the individual and are not willing to relinquish that constitutional right based on the whim of the PC antigun movement borne of the 60's youth rebellion( which I was part of at that time in spirit). Others of you want the government to have the entire responsibility for our safety. This represents a core loss of freedom to us, and goes hand in hand with the massive shift that our government has taken toward big government since the 60's. The government becomes the parent, we become the children. Entitlement mentality develops, individuals lose their self reliance, society becomes weaker as a whole. Again, I don't carry a gun anywhere because right now, where I live, the risk of an accident is greater to me since I have kids around. This is not about power or machismo or fear for me. It is upsetting that so many are ready to arrogantly and cavalierly reject the blueprint laid out and guaranteed in the constitution because of a few songs like the one about the Mountain people and the Valley people where the treasure is Peace on Earth. Dont forget, the Valley people wiped out the Mountain People.

 

[Beernutz]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

Thank you, Troll. That's exactly the point.<br /><br />I've not advanced an opinion nor taken a position on the subject. Yet Don Quixote perceives a threat. That's the problem with special interest people. They'll argue with a stop sign, trying to create an issue where none exists. It's fun to mess with them, though, just to see how far afield they'll take it. Bob doesn't even know who's corner I'm in. Nyuk, nyuk....<br /><br />By the way, Bob. I have a wife, children, and grandchildren, too. And I'll risk my life to assure their safety, by whatever means necessary. No spin.

 

[dicktaber]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

...and somehow we conveniently glossed over the fact (reported reluctantly, as facts that run counter to the argument often are) that a large number of those "poor innocent" children killed were actually 16/17/18 year old gang bangers killing each other; for some, shooting one another is as much a part of life as rap music...not quite the picture some would paint, of course.

 

[USS Neversail]

Re: bye bye Boats and Guns???????

OK, all, here are some stats from the FBI, from 1996 - 2000. <br />There were 7.5 million violent crimes during that time. That includes murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. <br />That is over 4,100 per day! To me, it sounds a lot more likely that you will be a victim of a violent crime than a victim of gun carelessness. <br /><br />There were only 3,387,000 arrests for violent crimes from 1996-2000. <br /><br />That is almost exactly a 2:1 ratio of crimes to the number arrested. <br /><br />A "justifiable homicide" according to the FBI is: the killing of a felon in the act of committing a felony. There were only 1,000 of those between 1995 and 2000. <br /><br />There were over 11,000 sports injuries, by the way. Should we shut down all sports?!?!?<br /><br />The basic reason for this post is to show there are MILLIONS of violent crimes happening out there and no one knows when or where they might happen. <br /><br />It also goes to show that even with only 200 or so "justifiable homicides" each year, it is still a thought/deterrant for criminals. <br /><br />I don't know, maybe that is because of instant justice instead of 12-18 years of appeals? <br /><br />Jason