should pete rose make it into

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Originally posted by Ralph:<br />Even betting to win affects the outcome. Example, lets say he bet today's game and in order to win, does something that affects the ability to win tomorrow, like using a pitcher he really needs in the next day's game. So he does not bet tomorrow because he has affected his ability to win on that day. <br /><br />Bottom line: you manage differently when you have money on the game either way.
Agreed. The point I was going to make was that the whole team could not be on the take.
 

POINTER94

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Re: should pete rose make it into

????,<br /><br />Sounds like "a little bit pregnant." By the way if Pete could produce his 30+ year old betting slips he spent 15years saying he didn't have, maybe ..... nope he's NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE HOF.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: should pete rose make it into

All I am saying is that all 9 players on that team was not in his pocket.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Using steroids and cheating with corked bats does not rise to the same level. When you gamble you affect the integrity of the outcome in multiple and unpredictable ways. You desire to win or lose on any given day gets affected. You bring organized crime into the equation. Now if you get in debt, you begin to trade the integrity of the game in exchange for your life.<br /><br />The fact that some cheater will be eligible for induction into the HOF is no guarantee they will be inducted. The steroids and corked bat are known and will affect the voting.<br /><br />Bottom line is Rose was banned from baseball because of his infractions. Once banned you are not eligible. To bend the rules for Rose by reinstating him sends the wrong message to the youth of America.<br /><br />The whole team does not have to be on the take to affect the outcome of any game. If you don't think a manager can lose a game (and a series) you didn't watch what Grady did during the Sox Yankees playoffs. :mad:
 

snapperbait

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Re: should pete rose make it into

I do believe that if he had come clean and admitted that he bet on baseball from the get go, he would probably be a member of the hall of fame today... <br /><br />The lie is what got him...
 

LadyFish

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Okay, okay, okay. Rose will never get in (to my dismay).
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<br /><br />A little more research........<br /><br />In the ongoing debate about whether Pete Rose should be reinstated to baseball, some have suggested that Commissioner Bud Selig allow him on the Hall of Fame ballot but not back in an active role in the game itself.<br /><br />Forget it. In this case, the rules don't allow for a split decision.<br /><br />According to a rule approved by the board of directors of the Hall of Fame in February 1991, no person on baseball's permanently ineligible list can go on the ballot for election. Because that rule was enacted shortly after Rose's banishment for gambling by late commissioner Bart Giamatti, it was commonly known as The Pete Rose Rule.<br /><br />"Our board feels it would be incongruous for anyone on the ineligible list, who is not allowed in major-league ballparks, to be considered for baseball's highest honor, election to the Hall of Fame," said Jeff Idelson, vice president of communications and education for the Hall.<br /><br />"For anyone on the ineligible list to become eligible for election, he would have to be fully reinstated."<br /><br />Let it be known that Selig, by virtue of his office, is on the board of directors of the Hall of Fame. Accordingly, if he had any quarrel with that rule, he would have made it known to Hall officials by now.<br /><br />As long as that rule exists, Selig cannot separate Rose, the banished gambler, from Rose, the former superstar. Rose cannot be placed on the Hall of Fame ballot unless he is fully reinstated to baseball.<br /><br />According to Idelson, it was "an unwritten rule" for years that ineligible players were not allowed on the ballot. The Rose banishment made board members realize it was time to make it official, to avoid any questions over the all-time hits leader's eligibility.<br /><br />"You can interpret it any way you want," Idelson said of the timing of that rule's enactment. "Our board is comfortable with it."<br /><br />Though Rose didn't come clean publicly about his gambling on baseball until last week, primarily via release of his second autobiography, he claims he confessed to Selig at a meeting in the commissioner's office in Milwaukee in November 2002.<br /><br />In the time since, Selig has seen no reason to act on Rose's petition for reinstatement, which was made in 1997. And if people think Selig now will act in knee-jerk reaction to recent events, they are mistaken.<br /><br />Selig always has monitored the pulse of fans and media regarding sensitive baseball issues. In recent years, there appeared to be a groundswell of support for Rose's reinstatement.<br /><br />Due to the overwhelming negative response from media and fans alike over Rose's method of coming clean after 14 years of belligerent denials - not to mention suspicions of Rose's motives - Selig is not likely to reverse course and reinstate him at this juncture.<br /><br />Baseball's Rule 21 states that gambling on baseball results in a lifetime ban. The Hall of Fame's rules state that ineligible former players cannot be inducted in Cooperstown.<br /><br />Don't look for either Selig or the Hall to start bending the rules at this point.<br /><br />
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mellowyellow

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Re: should pete rose make it into

we all know about his bold face lies...<br />do we diminish them simply because he was a great<br />player or do we forgive and forget?<br /><br />to me integrity comes ahead of ability...<br />there should be a huge section in the HOF about<br />charlie and his many great accomplishments IMO...<br /><br />but more important,<br />WHY he was never inducted into the hall is the real life lesson here...
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

I could not agree more MY. That is the lesson all kids need to learn.
 

POINTER94

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Doug,<br /><br />Age 8.<br /><br />MOM- Doug you are responsible for your own actions and you have nobody to blame but yourself if you do wrong. Take your punishment like a man. :mad: :mad: <br /><br />Pete Rose,<br /><br />age 45.<br /><br />Fans- We don't care what you do, who you do it to, how many times you lie, who you hurt, you don't need to be held responsible. :( :(
 

jtexas

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Talk about a tough crowd! Some of you are really harsh. The poor guy has a gambling problem and then tries to hide it out of embarrassment. Does that make him a scumbag? Or just not fit for HOF. Look at the sum total of his life before you judge his worth as a person. He's still in denial if you ask me. Accept his apology at face value - he's "sorry if anybody got hurt." Sounds more like he's offering sympathy.<br /><br />If he had left the game when he stopped playing he could have gambled himself silly and been HOF already. But he didn't leave the game. Never bet against his team? Doesn't matter - a manager has to think about the whole season not just this game or this inning. Not to mention the effect of being in debt to the mob - people bet on more things than the outcome of the game, like how many innings will the starter pitch. He had the opportunity to pad a player's stats at the expense of the team, or any number of things.<br /><br />A few years ago when Nolan Ryan started talking about running for Commissioner of Agriculture of the state of Texas, a number of folks noted that if elected he could have banned Pete Rose from farming for life!
 

crab bait

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Re: should pete rose make it into

pete knew all & more what L F wrote..he knew what the 'game'was/is.. why ya suppose he came clean ...??
 

Carphunter

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Ralph, I disagree. Your statement about steriods and corked bats is crazy. How can either of these not affect the outcome of the game?<br />Corked bats and steriods give someone an unfair advantage, .......and its in the rule book against both of those, just like gambling.<br />Should Sammy have been banned..........certainly, yet everyone forgave him. <br />What Pete did is no worse than some cheater using a corked bat, IMO. <br />Funny how quick people forgot about good 'ol Sammy.<br />I'm sure he would still be cheating if his bat didn't break.<br /><br />How can betting be any worse than cheating? And guess what, Sammy was cheating while he was playing, Pete was not gambling while playing. If it could be proved that he was, it would have came out by now.<br /><br />Two wrongs don't make a right. If steriod use, and corked bats don't keep you from the HOF, than neither should betting.<br /><br />Funny how this gets convieniently overlooked by everyone.
 

tylerin

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Re: should pete rose make it into

The Hall has 2-3 bats from Sammy and they refuse to have them x-rayed, might tarnish their image ;)
 

POINTER94

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Sorry Carphunter,<br /><br />Unfortunately you are not allowed to make the rules. The Rules state that the only activity that bans you from baseball for life is gambling. Pete gambled, and lied and lied and lied.<br /><br />You are rationalizing two separate conditions. FYI Hank Aaron who never says anything came out yesterday saying that Pete has no place in the HOF.<br /><br />If a guy strikes out with a corked bat vs. a standard bat, what is the difference? It was a decision by baseball's management and unions on the existing approach to steriods.
 

LadyFish

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Re: should pete rose make it into

This thread has been a brain tickler but I can't post to it any more. <br /><br />Its causing LF to
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<br /><br />Yeah that.
 

Carphunter

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Pointer, and everyone else. I hope nobody discusses integrity with me again. :mad: <br />I would have to say Major League Baseball is as screwed up as Pete. Your right, I certainly don't make the rules.........I don't think I ever said I did. <br />Pointer, corked bats are banned for a reason. The ball "jumps" off of a corked, and will fly farther than off of a standard bat, that is the difference. Just an unfair advantage, thats all.<br /><br />I would have to say its a pretty screwed up system that allows cheaters to go to the HOF, regardless of the infraction. I guess Gambling is the only way to cheat in Baseball? Get your head outta the sand people.<br /><br />As I said before, I could care less about Pete. I'll stick to my College Basketball, where any cheaters pay the appropriate price. As they should.<br /><br />Good Day.........I'm done. :)
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: should pete rose make it into

I'm just going to post one more time and I'm done with this one also.<br /><br />Cheating is cheating, however you do it.<br />If it effects the outcome of the game, it's cheating.<br />Gambling, using a corked bat, and/or steroids, effects the outcome of the game and is cheating.<br />Have a good one.
 

gaugeguy

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Steve Howe was banned for life several times and reinstated just as many for his illegal drug use.<br /><br />If you are found to be using "performance enhancing drugs" you are banned for life from competing in the olympics.<br /><br />Baseball changed it's rules in 1991 because of Pete Rose. Shoeless Joe was never ineligible for the hall until 1991.<br /><br />Baseball is about the $, and it always will be. That's why they don't ban cheaters, wife beaters, thieves, etc. and exactly why they will reinstate Petey.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: should pete rose make it into

Carp,<br />Here is what I said:<br /><br />
Using steroids and cheating with corked bats does not rise to the same level. When you gamble you affect the integrity of the outcome in multiple and unpredictable ways. You desire to win or lose on any given day gets affected. You bring organized crime into the equation. Now if you get in debt, you begin to trade the integrity of the game in exchange for your life.<br /><br />The fact that some cheater will be eligible for induction into the HOF is no guarantee they will be inducted. The steroids and corked bat are known and will affect the voting.<br /><br />Bottom line is Rose was banned from baseball because of his infractions. Once banned you are not eligible. To bend the rules for Rose by reinstating him sends the wrong message to the youth of America.<br />
You can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. The question here is no whether SS or MM should be inducted, the issue is whether Pete should be reinstated and be placed on the ballot. He knew gambling leads to a lifetime ban. He got caught and lied for 14 years.<br /><br />Pete Rose, his memorabilia, his records and accomplishments are all over the HOF he is just not a member. He has not been enshrined. That's it.<br /><br />So, now a question for you, how do you explain to the youth of America who learn sportmanship, competition and fairplay and draw all sorts of life lessons from sports, that you can break the cardinal rule of baseball and the rules will not apply to you if you are a star?
 
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