Land of the Oppressed

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Land of the Oppressed

I agree.Maybe they need to impliment a flatulence area in restaraunts based on menu items ordered. :)
 

KennyKenCan

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
2,501
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Yeah wvit,<br /><br />But your farts contain methane too, which is a cancer hazard to you and me, so where is the law against FARTING?<br /><br />Kenny
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Land of the Oppressed

But wait, If they allow flatulence area in restaraunts then it will have to be in the "no smoking area " by order of fire marshall.
 

KennyKenCan

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
2,501
Re: Land of the Oppressed

ob,<br /><br />You have a point there, farts are extremly flamable!<br /><br />Kenny
 

lakeman1999

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
550
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Aspec, you have made two statements here, that prove it is either psychosomatic, or a prevarication.<br /><br />"My common answer when someone asks if I mind if they smoke? Mind if I throw-up? Smoke makes me nausious (and I am a volunteer firefighter? Go figure!) I have left restaurants that do not have clearly defined No-Smoking sections, asked to be moved to other tables, etc. It really bothers me - eyes water, stomach churns, etc. Never smoked, never will, can't handle it. So, because of the Freedoms you want, you are confining me to limited places and blocking my freedoms."<br /><br /> :D :D NOW!! if smoke effected you that much, and it was not all in your mind (or you are prevaricating) you could not be a volunteer firefighter, because of physical (or mental) disabilities.<br /><br />"I have a friend that had a sever respiratory ailment. Left him with acute smell. He can smell smoke at 100 yards, outside, and it makes him sick - literally. What is that man to do if smoking is allowed any and every where?" <br /><br /> :D :D NOW!! This is absolute fiction, or one helluva lot of exageration. 100 yards, is 3600 inches, or 300 feet, or 1/18th of a mile, if I should walk that far from your friend, and light a cigaret (I am a non smoker by the way) he absolutely positively could not smell it if he was blindfolded and could not see it. As I said in most cases it is either psychosomatic, and/or prevarification. :D :D <br /><br />Wvit100, you said,<br />"What if I said I don't think the gov. has the right to come into my establishment and inspect the kitchen? Do you think we should not have any regulations as far as health or safety?"<br /> <br /> :D :D My answer, yes we/I/you/they should have the right to tell that health inspector to stay the h**l out of my/your/their establishment, then it would be up to the individual, you, I, Carphunter, or anyone else, to come into my establishment, and eat, or if I/we/they would rather, they could go to an inspected class "A" establishment and spend their money. As long as I was not harming/hurting anybody, leave me alone to my own devises, that my dear fellow is freedom, as the forefathers established, not what we have today.
 

Carphunter

Commander
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
2,061
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Well now, after reviewing other posts, I see that some of the people that I disagree with are from the same general location, and continually agree with each other in every post, even on different threads, interesting. Must be an East coast thing. :D Well, I don't have my group, just happy to stand on my own.<br /><br />Guess I got drawn into this discussion,(arguement), not realizing that I never had a chance. <br /><br />Lakeman, if I said what you said, then it would have been considered a personal attack by others, wierd ain't it.<br /><br />Guess I will just never fit in,.....darn it. :( <br /><br />I'm really a hunter anyway,.....why I hang out on a fishing forum, I don't know.<br /><br /> :D :D :D :D :D :D
 

JGREGORY

Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,412
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Boy has this topic taken a spin into the surreal.<br /><br />The question remains when do personal rights become a public concern.<br /><br />You can't yell fire in a crowded theater because of the panic that would happen, despite the fact that you have the freedom of speech. So therefore does the Government have the right to regulate habits that have a potential adverse effect on it's citizens? They do it every day, I can't go to a bar and get all liqoured up and get behind the wheel of an car, If I kill someone I will face all kinds of charges.<br /><br />Does the fact that smoking takes a longer time to kill make a difference? As far as I'm concerned it doesn't. I don't smoke never have, don't like it, and it impacts serverely with my allergies. Am I willing to tolerate smoking in a private establishment? No I will go some place. Does the Government have the right to establish laws that effect personal rights, Yes. Should they? With Great care and contemplation.<br /><br />Unfortunatly, The Government wants it both ways. They love the revenue they receive from tobacco sales, can't give that up can we! But is receiving pressure from it's citizens to curb it's use where the population congregate. <br /><br />The Gov't needs to s**t or get of the pot. Smoking is either dangerous to all and needs to regulated (ie banned). or it's a personal freedom and as such LEAVE US ALONE.<br /><br />Just my .02 cents :p
 

JGREGORY

Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,412
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Don't leave carphunter, personally I agree with you. Unfortunately, this is much more than a smoking issue. :(
 

mellowyellow

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Messages
5,327
Re: Land of the Oppressed

the best defense is a good offense eh Carp?<br />rather than defend your stance, attack opposition.<br />our "freedom" allows you to voice your opinion, so<br />why not at least try?
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Unfortunately Carp you do not understand the fundamental difference between a public place like a street and a private bar. You can't **** in the street because it is a public place that everyone has an equal right to use. Besides, pissing in the sreet is a long established health risk and smelly as all heck :D I think you can still **** in the street in most of the rest of the world though...<br /><br />You don't have the right to drive 100 mi/hour simply becuase it is being done on PUBLIC roads where you would be putting other people in harms way. You can do 100 mi/hour on a Private road - see the difference? I guess not...<br /><br />Let's take a look at that word, public:<br /><br />public<br /> <br />Of or pertaining to the people; belonging to the people; relating to, or affecting, a nation, state, or community; -- opposed to private; as, the public treasury.<br /><br />Yup, private property ain't public....<br /><br />Just stop thinking about smoking for a minute and take a braoder view. What happens when a nation begins to chp away at the long established freedoms of its citizens even if it's in the name of a good cause? Well, you get people suing McDonalds for making them fat. Suing to have Oreos declared a health hazard. Airlines afraid to serve peanuts. Etc., etc., etc.<br /><br />I have a VERY SERIOUS allergy to MSG. Did you know MSG is in just about eveything you eat these days? Everything. Even the very best restaraunts use it in the salad dressings, soups, bread crumbs, etc. Now, am I out there trying to get MSG banned? No. Why not? BECAUSE IT IS MY PROBLEM AND MY RESPONSIBILITY TO DEAL WITH IT!<br /><br />"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety."<br />Benjamin Franklin - November 11, 1755
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Land of the Oppressed

PS <br /><br />JGREGORY you are right- Very well said.. They do have the ability to make such laws and the ability should only be used as a last resort. Not as a knee jerk reaction to the prevailing winds of social attitudes. <br /><br />Carp, we on the East Coast are probably on the vanguard of the abuse of power by the government and that is perhaps why we are so sensitive to it. We have seen with our own eyes where this all leads and it ain't pretty.<br /><br />I may not agree with your opinion but I would give my life defending your right to give it. And I mean that sincerely...
 

Fishbusters

Ensign
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
921
Re: Land of the Oppressed

I have read some opinions on this but not all so I don't know whose toes I will be stepping on and whose I won't and frankly I don't care I am going to state my opinion here whether you like it or not. ;) <br />I don't think smoking should be allowed in public places like stores, museums and such. I think smoking should be allowed in resturaunts but in a seperate room than the non-smoking section and only then with ventilation. I think that smoking should only be allowed in bars with a lot of ventilaton. This was not the opinion i had when I was young nor is cancer the reason behind this. My opinion has changed over the years because of my wife. Smoking does not bother me (unless you are close to me as I am eating) but it does my wife. She has developed a mild alergy to smoke. In a big room with one or two smokers it is not bad but in a closed bar where the smoke can not escape she starts to get a headache, nose gets a stuffy and eyes water. We more than once have had to leave a bar or nightclub that we went to with friends, enjoy a band or just be out because the smoke started getting to her. We have been to the same places on the same type of nights when the door was open and a fan or two was going and she had no problems. Is this a place we have to go? No it is not but it is a place we enjoy going and we should be able to do it w/o needing a respirator or her getting sick. I feel everyone has the right to do certian things drinking and smoking are among them but I feel that when others pleasure adversly affects people to where they have to give up things that give them pleasure something needs to be done. BTW I am not talking second hand smoke and cancer and such but rather people that it gives a more immediate medical problem.
 

TexSkeeter150

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 3, 2003
Messages
277
Re: Land of the Oppressed

The answer to this "smoking" debate is not should it be allowed or not. The question is, is it the government responsibility to make these laws. I am not a smoker and hate it, but I believe this should be a private decision for each business owner. If I want to open a non-smoking or a smoking bar, then I should be able to do so. I would let the demand of the consumer dictate what business should do. If I had a smoking bar and no one was coming in my place because of the smoke, I would change to non-smoking to stay in business. The converse is true, too. Government has no place in these affairs. I also read that some people don't think it is "fair" that they can not enjoy a place that a smoker goes to, because of the smoke. Fair has nothing to do with fredom and rights. Socialism and Comunism are two great "failed" examples of governments trying to be "fair". My main gripe over these rules is bigger government and bigger regulations. Let the people decide, not government. As you can tell I don't want big govenment and never like to interfere with capitalism. Just my humble opinion.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Just try this in the US and watch what happens.<br /><br />Everyone that smokes quit buying smokes for a week and watch the Government start backing up.<br /><br />They could not stand the lossed revenue from smokes.<br /><br />I know it will never happen, but you would see a big change in their stance on smokes in public places.<br /><br />They tell you how bad it is and where you can and cannot smoke, but do they stop the tobacco people from making said smokes, I don't think so.<br />To many palms getting greased from the big tobacco companys for that to happen.
 

aspeck

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Staff member
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May 29, 2003
Messages
19,258
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Lakeman - neither is correct. I can be a firefighter because of the breathing apparatus we wear. AM breathing fresh air and we have all kinds of air purifiers in the station to suck the smoke smell out of the station and off our turnout gear.<br /><br />I have seen my friend tell me there were cigs in the area when we could not see any - only to find out later his nose was correct. Of course, the wind has to be correct.<br /><br />However, these attacks on my truthfulness :D :D do not change the point that if people respected the conditions of others, you are correct, we would not need laws that effect our freedoms.<br /><br />As for the peanut issue - I too used to think that it was only eating peanuts, but because of working EMS, have seen people who have swelled up like a ballon because they touched a ball that someone else touched, that had eated peanuts. Also had a case wehre a person swelled up because someone was eating peanuts in the same room.<br /><br />Am I saying peanuts should be outlawed? No! But I have learned that people are effected by them in different ways and so I am careful where I eat them and even when I serve them or cook with them in my own home.<br /><br />What am I trying to say? If more people were considerate of others, this discussion would be mute. We wouldn't need laws because everyone would be looking out for everyone else.
 

Ralph 123

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Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Land of the Oppressed

You got it Tex you see the big picture here. As I have been saying all along this is about a lot more than smoking.<br /><br />SBN - you're dead right. Their attitude would change in a hurry. They clearly want it both ways.<br /><br />aspeck, you can't legislate consideration. And you don't make people considerate by taking away their right to choose.<br /><br />Peterfishbuster, I get deathly ill from MSG with pain described by doctors as the worst a human being can experience. Am I out there trying to get laws passed banning its use? No. It's my job to avoid foods and places that use it. Likewise, people affected by smoke should avoid places where it is allowed. No instead they prefer to infringe on private property rights and freedom of association rights.<br /><br />Again, when you start down this slippery slope in does not take too long before they get around to trying to take away a freedom you cherish - your SUV, your boat, drinking, fast food, oreos, whatever.<br /><br />wvit100, sorry I forgot to respond to you earlier. The difference is that people can't see the risks they are taking with food so it is an unknown and unaccepted risk. Therefore, we passed laws about the way food is to be prepared so that we can all ASSUME the food is safe. With a bar or restaraunt that allows smoking the risks are self evident and therefore can be accepted knowingly. See the difference?<br /><br />"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety."<br />Benjamin Franklin - November 11, 1755
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Now I know why elephants are so big. :eek: <br /><br />It's the peanuts. :p
 

Fishbusters

Ensign
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
921
Re: Land of the Oppressed

Ralph, not eating things that contain something you are allergic to is not the same thing as being allergic to something others do and you have no control over. You can easily avoid eating things with MSG in them and many restaurants know people are allergic and have many items that are MSG free. I am not out to ban smoking even though I know the associated health risks (Cancer and such) both to those who smoke and those who don't but are around smokers. What I am suggesting is that something be done to protect those who are allergic to the smoke by either having separate areas or extra ventilation as a requirement for areas where people are allowed to smoke indoors. If you want to go all legal and talk about peoples "Rights" when we are talking the smoking argument I can go that way too. You feel you have the "right" to smoke anywhere you want I feel people have the "right" to enjoy things and not to be caused to get sick because of something you choose to do. I feel that the right to enjoy life is guaranteed to all people by the constitution of the United States and under it I feel that people smoking indoors infringes on other people's rights. Should those allergic to smoke be forced to stay home when there are other options that could be taken to limit or even exclude contact with what makes them ill w/o actually forcing others not to do something they enjoy and actually if done right provides them a place to do it w/o infringing on other peoples rights? I think all here would agree that compromises can and should be made for both sides of this issue. Perhaps we could have a bar or nightclub with a smoking and non smoking section. I also think a lot could be done to ventilate areas that allow smoking making them "safe" for those mildly allergic and safer for those that are not and even perhaps provide benefits for smokers as well.
 
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