Land of the Oppressed

mellowyellow · Jul 18, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

edited...

Carphunter · Jul 18, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Ok, now this is it, I won't post on this thread again, I promise. Mellow, my "2-cents worth" comment was meant to be a joke, nothing else. I didn't realize you edited your post, I will do the same. And you really don't want to dance with me..............Cause I got two left feet and I prefer women.

I'm just joking........ Well I do like women though............I mean I like a woman.......... I mean......Forget it.

Have a nice day

mellowyellow · Jul 18, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

good enough for me

Ralph 123 · Jul 18, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Carp - that's exactly the point. There is hope for you

jim phillips · Jul 18, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Carp are you OK ???? you sound shook up. LOL I love this board it just keeps getting better all the time

SeaMasterZ@aol.com · Jul 20, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

how the helll did I miss this??? I would have had a BALL stirring this one up! Still, just want to make a few points .... In Delaware, land of DuPont and Superfund clean up sites ... you bet your asss they are related subjects ... you cant smoke in a bar or restaurant in DELAWARE, where smoke BELCHES Out of DuPonts stacks, you absolutely positively CANNOT smoke In a bar or restaurant Lets consider this you can work in a place that eats your lungs out, a friend of my mom has worked on a farm for most of his life, and hes got something wrong with his lungs ... pulmonary doc says, you wonk at duPont? hmmmmmmmm you can guzzle BEER and WHISKEY til your liver f@#king DIES no one will bother you you cant smoke in a bar or restaurant those of you who follow my posts know I have spent some time at my grandmothers bar this summer American citizens go to the bar they all smoke THEY ALL SMOKE and if rights are equal, doesnt my grandmother have the right to DISCRIMINATE against non smokers by excluding them from her establishment? ya dont like smoke? STAY OUT period THATS Freedom Beware People Freedom is lost by degrees so finely honed you dont feel the sting of them til you are bound in chain from head to toe ask any Jew from prewar Germany about it the ones that survived the holocaust will tell ya all about it and thats all I have to say about that!

aspeck · Jul 21, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Stayed off as long as I could - didn't really want to get into this, but here goes.... MY, Ralph, KKK, etc., I agree with you that we must be careful. Our freedoms are being eroded daily, and that is scary. Too many men and women died for us to have freedom to see that freedom go down the toilet. However, what is one person's freedom is another person's "oppression." Some examples - maybe extreme examples, but examples none the less - abortion - the right for a woman to choose. Great, a women should have the right to chose, but what about the infant's right to chose? A woman's choice should be to use birth control or not, to spread legs or not, etc. But when it infringes on another's right? What then? It was mentioned about drinking whiskey till you erode your liver - that is your choice and it doesn't effect anyone till you get obnoxious or try to drive. That is where your freedom stops. With smoking, I am not a smoker, and cig smoke makes me nausious. I have no problem if someone wants to smoke, but don't force me to smoke also! I have left restaurants because of insufficient "No-Smoking" sections. Personal rights and Freedoms are to be defended vehemently - but we always see our own freedoms as the most important.

LadyFish · Jul 21, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

As far as smoking, knowing the health risks its not right to be inconsiderate of those who do not smoke and you shouldn't smoke in their company. I hate it when I see someone smoking in a car with a young child or holding a baby with one arm while smoking. Its rude and imposes a health risk to those who choose not to smoke. Common sense and courtesy is all it takes but people are selfish and only consider their own wants and needs. Maybe the questions is, should we be governed when we're too stupid to act considerate? Should the government make moral decisions for us such as abortion, gay lifestyle, etc. Personally, I don't believe in murdering unborn babies as a form of birth control. There are circumstances that may be appropriate to abort an unborn child but they're few and far between and that decision should be left up to the parents and the doctor not the government. I don't agree that the government dictate our morals, even though the moral fiber of this country is all but gone down the drain. Used to be all it took was a Sunday visit to your local church that taught you morality and good manners. Its kind of ironic, the government allowed enough nicotine in ciggarettes to make them addictive and now wants to tell us where to smoke them. As far as other hazards to our health that the government does allow its just plain wrong. You can't tell me that in this day and age, we can't create a non-polluting fuel to operate automobiles, etc. Smoking in public is such a small part of the freedoms we have given up. How 'bout not being able to say God in our Pledge, pray in school, and so on. Who's rights are being taken away when we can't practice our freedom of religion?

Ralph 123 · Jul 21, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Ladyfish, it is all part of the same slippery slope. All part of the chipping away at our freedoms. No one right is more important than another. It's just that people may value them differently. To me, private property rights rank pretty high. The freedom to choose ranks pretty high. Somebody here on iBoats uses the following as part of their signature and I think it says it all: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - November 11, 1755 As for relativistic arguments like, "well this is not as bad as that" I'd just say that those are the most dangerous of all. They justify and rationalize one bad thing becuase of another bad thing and make it easy to do the next bad thing. Bad things are bad things and should be debated alone.

SeaMasterZ@aol.com · Jul 21, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

I would love to have everyone that reads this to reach into their pocket and pull out some form of money ... read carefully see that " IN GOD WE TRUST"? this country was FOUNDED in the unshakable belief that there IS a god, and he watches over us, America was a place of RELIGIOUS FREEDOM ... and now our kids cant mention God in the pledge of allegiance??? BUT ... you can wrap your head in scuzzy RAGS and have a picture taken of your rag headed FACE, @*#&@*ing RAGHEADED pieces of SH!T, and have your official ID taken of nothing but those stinking RAGS and claim it is part of your religious tenent that you be shrouded at all times GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Meanwhile, as the infidel ground shakes, we cant enforce or otherwise insist on disclosure of identity of these infestations of American soil But the Americans born and bred HERE are subjugated and emasculated and hamstrung more and more and more each and every day to my ancestors that died in many American wars, to you and yours, thank you for the freedom you gave us to the thousands that died as a result of this jihad atrocity, who lost that basic freedom of a chance to have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I apologize for being part of a system that can only take away YOUR freedom, and not protect you from ragheaded heaps of sh!t that caused you moments of absolute horror and your famlies untold, endless suffering - yet we cant profile these aliens, THEY have rights, THEY have feedom A second American Revolution is needed Rememmber Patrick Henry ... Give me Liberty, or Give Me Death Too much death Its Time for Liberty Guess that WASNT all I had to say about that PS - To the turban topped decent citizens that work hard and try to make this country a better place, and to better themselves by hard work, I applaud you the ragheaded pieces of sh!t know who they are

Ralph 123 · Jul 21, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Ray your feelings are shared by more Americans each day who are just fed up with the crap. Three events changed the way this country thinks and has put us on the edge of a revolution of the mind if nothing else: 1) The 2000 election. It should us that every vote really is important. It showed that the Dems are very selfish sore losers in general and will do or say anything to win. 2) 911 and the Anthrax attacks showed us we are vulnerable. That the world is a dangerous place. That there are poeple out there who want to destroy us and will do anything to hurt us. 3) Afghanastan & Iraq showed us that we have a military of no equal. That we can destroy our enemies w/o destroying whole countries and innocent poeple as heretofore has always been the case. And, finally, the only thing our enemies understand is pure power. American are fed up with the PC crap. Fed up with The errosion of our freedoms while handing them over to our enemies instead! Fed up with treating criminals and enemies with more rights than the average citizen. Fed up with politicians who put their own interests ahead of the country's. Fed up with politicians ignoring important issues while focusing instead on ways to make our lives less free. Americans everywhere are just plain fed up!

mellowyellow · Jul 21, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

try this: replace smoking with another personal freedom. let's say... how fast you can drive your boat. there is no doubt that excessive speed is the cause of many accidents on the water. should the gov't impose a speed limit? we all would be safer, right? most folks don't own a boat and could care less. they would understand the desire to prevent the loss of life. stirring the sauce

, M.Y.

lakeman1999 · Jul 21, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

CastawayRay, If you are young enough, you will undoubtly get your wish, I am too old, and will be dead and gone. Buu...tt!!, it is inevetable, unless there is a big turnaround in the morals of society, socialization of society, and the rape of personal freedom there will definently be another revolution. The big problem, I think that the next revolution will result in anarchy and chaos, as society is suffering from a lack of dicipline, self control, and selfishness. If, by chance there was ever another depression, it would be enough to start it, as the majority of american society is so deep in debt that the loss of a weekly paycheck most of society today could not survive. And the ones to suffer would be the ones that had lived sensibly, and did not try to keep up with their neighbors, and lived within their means, all the while putting something back for a rainy day, as in the anarchy, and chaos that followed it will be the have-nots, and hungry taking from the haves.

SeaMasterZ@aol.com · Jul 21, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

I guess in years I am approaching the middle ground, tho with medical advances 41 is late youth but in my mind, I am with my great grandfather, who would be 114 had he lived this long I am glad he did not I used to watch this man hobble on a shattered foot, he would in lighter moments admit he got "his asss blowed off in the war" The man was shot to pieces in 1944 Pain lined his face, yet he believed in America, believed in his own belief, that the world HE KNEW was intrinsically good and worth dying for He polished his old car; his boat, tho worn beyond years, was immaculate, repairs were impeccable ... he was a clammer, clammers dont get rich, they just get worn down by the sea, but he never complained, 4 am came with a cloud of blue smoke mixing with a cloud of somewhat sweeter smoke from his corncob meerchaum pipe ... and out he went into waters as well known to him as his own hand He bought gas from english speaking americans He bought bait from english speaking americans No stuttering gibberish, no music like cats being run thru a disposal, people that came here were ASHAMED of their poor english and STROVE to excel in the language Now, the shame is in being American I am glad hes not here to see what became of his America ... because after all he went through, all the horror he had personally experienced and many many men he had seen die ... after all that, I would finally see the tears sliding down that leathery sun ravaged face, a gnarled and scarred hand wiping them away and flinging them unceremoniously into the salt of the bay He had pride PRIDE in being a MAN ... in being a veteran in being ... American What pride can we claim? nothing at all in his eyes

paulgp6022 · Jul 22, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

I used to smoke, and I quit after 12 years. I just kept thinking of some rich, fat, cigar smoking CEO eating lobster dinners off of my dime and my health. I quit cold turkey.

Ralph 123 · Jul 22, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

I just wish this thread had been started by an intrusion on our freedoms other than smoking. Then the bigger issues would have been easier to see. CastawayRay - that's the America I want back and want for my son. Land of the Free, home of the brave. Proud and indpendent.

LadyFish · Jul 22, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

CastawayRay, truer words have never been spoken so eloquently. You, Ralph, Kenny and so many others here realize the importance of the issue at hand--freedom, or lack thereof. We must first change the heart of America before we can be successful at changing the law(s)of America.

KennyKenCan · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Hey Ralph, Sorry I started this thread with the smoking issue. Next time I will contact you, and we could get it started in a better manner, that would have a more open agenda. Oh well. Kenny

KennyKenCan · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Thank you LadyFish! Kenny

Ralph 123 · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Hey Kenny - it was perfect just the way you did it! This was an enlightening discussion for all. I'm glad you brought it up. It's just easy for people to demonize smoking so they sort of miss the bigger issues.

Land of the Oppressed

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