Land of the Oppressed

Carphunter · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

I lied, i'm back! I just don't like to breathe second-hand smoke, thats all I was really commenting on.

I see the "Big picture" also, but this thread started with the smoking issue and I was trying to stay on track with where this thread started. This is the greatest country in the world.....in my opinion, and if you don't believe it, try living somewhere else for a while. The complaints I have about living in this country would be miniscule compared to the complaints of those living elsewhere. Do I agree with all of the crap that goes on in Washington.......Heck No, but how does the old saying go; "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time". I realize that there are going to be some laws that I don't agree with, but if I choose to live here, then I must abide by these laws. I don't always agree with how "The system" works, heck, I hardly ever agree with how many things work, but what should I do? I love living where I do, and if the government becomes so corrupt that I can't stand to live here anymore, then I will do something about it. I despise liberal Democrats, or liberals in general, but if they were not allowed to be "liberals", then that wouldn't be right. I would like to handle some of these liberals with some buckshot, but that probably wouldn't be right either.

So, to get back to where this started, I should not have to breathe toxic air that came from someone elses lungs, yet I am forced to in certain situations because some smokers cant keep their "habit" to themselves. From where I stand, that is not right.......is it enough to make me want to leave this country.....NO, so I guess I will have to live with it. Sometimes it seems as though people just want to complain about the problems, instead of doing something about it. If I was as unhappy as some of you seem about living in the U.S.A., then I would pack up and leave, but I am not, so I will stay and thank God that I am allowed to live in this great country. This daggone horse won't get up,....must be dead.

SpinnerBait_Nut · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

I like fresh blackberry cobbler and fresh coconut cream pie.

That's all I got to say.

Ralph 123 · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Just when I thought there was hope for you Carp you go and start beating that dead horse again

Don't misunderstand a desire to protect our freedoms as some sort of dislike or unhappieness with this country. It's the direction the country has been headed in since the 60s that is the issue. Hey, we aren't the ones trying to pass these laws its you all.... So you all must be the unhappy ones We just want things to be the way they used to be

And Carp, nobody "forces" you to go into any restaraunt or Pub that allows smoking. That is your choice. And it should be the OWNERS decision if smoking is allowed. Not yours and not the government's unless either of you want to buy the business from him and make the rules.

lakeman1999 · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Carphunter, you are very wrong about one thing, and that is the thing that is wrong with this country (do gooders wanting to tell me how to live), people that think like you. You do not have to breath anybodys second hand smoke. all you have to do, is frequent businesses that do not allow smoking. If everyone that is against smoking would not be two faced, and stand by their guns, and boycot places where smoking was allowed, there would be plenty of nonsmoking businesses for you to give your business too. And as I said before, I am an ex smoker, and I will not deny anyone their right to smoke if they want to, and when the wife and I go to a restaurant, to be seated (we are both non smokers), we tell the person seating us, it does not matter, smoking or non smoking, whichever is available first. You'alls complaint is a cop-out, and as I said earlier in this thread, the ones that yell and complain the loudest, are ex-smokers that just cannot stand someone else doing what they are hurting to do, and they just want to snach a cigarette from some one. Now you loud complainers, deny it all you want, but we really know the truth, "YOU JUST CAN'T STAND NOT HAVING THEM COFFIN NAILS". ""Whups, don't deny it, we don,t want to hear ya'lls cop out".

JJ57103 · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Wow, heated discussion. I'm not a smoker, but with all of the good programs ciggarette taxes fund, isn't it all of our moral obligation to buy a pack of smokes? I've seen it suggested in here that we should outlaw smoking altogether? Sure... if we want a huge hike in taxes.

KennyKenCan · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Hey JJ, Not only will taxes rise, but so would unemployment and the national debt . And who will be blamed for these rises...the President of the U.S. is who, and he/she would have had nothing to do with it! The fault should be on the shoulders of those who asked that their singleminded viewpoint be impossed upon everyone! Maybe those who asked for these laws, should have to be held responsible for any shortcommings in these laws, and tax those specific individuals for the amount of damage they inflict upon the deficit, unemployment insurance and taxes, just as the cigarrette smokers are taxed for the health costs! Kenny

Carphunter · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Ralph, I am not trying to pass any laws. I don't believe smoking should be outlawed, just confined. You are right, if I don't want to breathe second hand smoke, then I shouldn't enter a place that allows it, but, as I have said before, my job requires me to enter certain places where it is allowed, so I am forced to breathe it from time to time. Lakeman, how is it that I am telling you how to live? I am talking about one issue here, SMOKING, and it is my opinion here again that if someone has a "habit" that affects my health, it shouldn't be allowed in certain places. Smoke all you want in your home, on your property, in your car, I could care less, just don't blow that crap in my face. Someone said earlier that this is about ALL of our freedoms, and you are right, I should have the freedom not to breathe second hand smoke. Someone got on me earlier because I drive a vehicle that pollutes, well, unfortunately, I have no choice but to drive this vehicle to get to my job, where I make my money to support my family. If electric cars were readily available and affordable, then I would drive one, but they aren't. Smoking is a choice and a habit, I don't care what anyone says, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SMOKE, and when you smoke in public, you are forcing your "Habit" on others. Blah Blah Blah Blah, I just keep repeating myself, so unless I have something new to add, I will quit responding to this post. BTW, Other than the smoking issue, I agree with what is being said here. Blackpowder smoke, now there is a smoke that I don't mind inhaling.

rudeafrican · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Some people just cannot see the woods for the trees here. Lakeman, turn your arguement around and look at it from the other side. You do not want anybody telling you what to do, whether you are allowed to smoke or not, I'm fine with that but I also don't want anybody telling me I must breathe their secondhand smoke. My right as a citizen to have smokefree air in PUBLIC places must surely also be respected. Just as I respect your right to smoke in your car, in your house in the street, on the sidewalk anywhere but where myself and the little ones are having a meal. Does that make me a do-gooder liberal in your opinion?

lakeman1999 · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Then it should be an OSHA regulation that your employer furnish you with a fully enclosed self contained calamity suit for your protection. I see pictures in the paper, and on the news of persons wearing these when there is an auto accident, and there is an oil or gas spill and they are cleaning up from a ruptured tank. After 69 years of constant exposure to gas and oil (having been used for all kind of purposes, which now must be done in secrecy) how did I live this long? I can remember when I was in grade school, we were told our life expectancy was abot eight years short of retirement. Hey, how do they work, and get anything done in those bulky white tents??

lakeman1999 · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Rudeafrican, if you read my post, I state that you have the right to eat where smoking is not allowed.

Ralph 123 · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

RA, It may be different in SA, but in the US Restaraunts and Pubs are not "Public" places. They are not owned by the government and people are not required to go there to conduct official business. They are private property. Private property rights are one of the most zelaously guarded freedoms in the US. It comes from the Colonial days when in places like Boston the British would enter and/or take over private property at will I think we have come full circle on this now...

aspeck · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

My common answer when someone asks if I mind if they smoke? Mind if I throw-up? Smoke makes me nausious (and I am a volunteer firefighter? Go figure!)

I have left restaurants that do not have clearly defined No-Smoking sections, asked to be moved to other tables, etc. It really bothers me - eyes water, stomach churns, etc. Never smoked, never will, can't handle it. So, because of the Freedoms you want, you are confining me to limited places and blocking my freedoms. I have a friend that had a sever respiratory ailment. Left him with acute smell. He can smell smoke at 100 yards, outside, and it makes him sick - literally. What is that man to do if smoking is allowed any and every where? I love peanuts, and fly often. Wish peanuts were still served on airplnes, but I also realize that a very small number of the population have peanut allergies to the point that if they smell nuts, they will break out in hives and/or experience acute swelling of the bronchi and throat. Do I insist on my "right" to be served peanuts on an airplane? No, because I respect the health of others and peanuts are something I can do without till I get to my destination. It is my habit and I will control it for the health and convenience of others. I am not so selfish that I will demand my own way when others are bothered. If more people felt this way and truly respected others we would need fewer laws! Freedom is a double edged sword. Till people can see and respect both sides of the freedom issue, there will have to be people that make decisions for the entire population - whether those decisions are right or wrong depend on which side of the arguement you fall on. I am just grateful with live in such a wonderful country that we can have a discussion as this one and not be carted off to jail!

Ralph 123 · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

You have the freedom to NOT go into an establishment that allows smoking. You do NOT have the right to tell a business owner how to run his business. This country was founded on the principals of freedom of choice and private property rights. Nobody is forcing you to do anything yet you want to force others to do what you want them to do. These are PRIVATE establishments. You don't own them and you have no God given right to force yourself in there. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - November 11, 1755 There is no such thing as a right to peanuts on an airplane. If you don't understand the difference between intruding on private property rights and peanuts on an airplane then I don't know what to say. And how stupid has the country become when an airline is afraid to give out peanuts because some moron who shouldn't eat them, might and sue the airlines.... HELLO???? Is that the kind of country we all want? Isn't that exactly the sort of crap we are all sick to death of? Is is a slippery slope. Our freedoms are being chipped away little by little. As I have said before it is like putting a frog in a pan of water on the stove and slowly turning the heat up. The frog never jumps out because it is so gradual. Then next thing you know it's dead. It takes a lot to stick up for a freedom you don't happen to like but in the long run it is in your self interest or you will wake up one day and be a dead frog in a pan of boiling water. Some people see the bigger issue and some people don't.

KennyKenCan · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Hey carphunter, If you must go into a place where smoking is allowed, for your job, then that is called "Occupational Hazards" and you will have to just live with it, just like I had to live with all the chemicals (M.E.K., Acetone, Borax, Nitrogen, Alcohols, Paint Removers, Jet Fuel, etc.)that I had to inhale when I worked for a major defense contractor. If I had told my boss that I did not like to inhale those chemicals, I would have been escorted to the gate and told to have a nice life! By the way, the U.S. Government aready taxes us for Occupational Hazard medical costs. If you don't like the "Occupational Hazards" of your job, then find another job that doesn't have the hazards you wish to avoid. Plain and Simple. If you don't like smoking in a bar or resturant, then go to a non-smoking bar or resturant . And if you can't find a non-smoking bar or resturant, then all that is saying is, that there is no demand for such establishments , otherwise, they would be there. Why should the bar or resturant owner have to go out of business because the government requires no smoking in his privatly owned establishment , and can no longer keep his door open because no patrons, patronize his establishment anymore? Trust me, it's already happenning here in NY. I know of 3 bars that have already closed due to the smoking issues here, and 1 of those establishments first opened in 1683, so after 320 years of business, they are forced to close, by laws that violate everything the place stood for for 320 years. Kenny

wvit100 · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Ralph, owner's of restruants are told what and how to do things all the time. They have a permit and are required to go by whatever is required under that permit. They have to have health inspections. What if I said I don't think the gov. has the right to come into my establishment and inspect the kitchen? Do you think we should not have any regulations as far as health or safety in private business? If you carry your arguments out that's where your heading. This doesn't have anything to do with your rights. You have the right to do anything that you want in your own home, as long as it isn't against the law. You do not have the right to do anything you want in a public place.

Carphunter · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Kenny and Ralph......YOU ARE RIGHT!!! what was I thinking, I have seen the light!!!! I will take up smoking immediately. Be sure to look me up at the cancer rehab center.

I think I will start urinating in public.......wait a minute, thats not the same, because I wouldn't be killing anyone if I did that. Guess I will have to contain my urinating to restrooms and behind the occaisional tree.....but thats not right either, I should be able to urinate when and where I want, everyone else should just have to put up with it. Right? Cmon.......thats a bunch of crap. Its a shame YOU can't see that. If I were you, I would move to a country that allows more freedoms than you recieve in the good 'ol U.S. I love this country, and I don't have much patience for those who continue to bash her. "Land of the "Oppressed"!? seems pretty dramatic to me. It would be safe to say that since you live in the U.S.A. you "really" don't know what oppressed means. Amen Aspeck! nice to see that someone else understands what I am trying to say.

Gotta go, gonna get in my gas guzzler, and drive about 100 miles an hour down the freeway.........Its a free country, I should be allowed to do this..........But thats not right, because I would be endangering other peoples lives,.........See my point!, probably not, but thats ok. I'm out

mellowyellow · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

ditto Ralph and Kenny

couldn't have said it better guys... thanks!

ob · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Polititions are bad for your health.Can they please put them on their own network so I won't have to inhale their comments unless I so choose.

KennyKenCan · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

Well then what about FARTING... Farts are disgusting and I don't like them! Besides, farts contain methane, and methane is known to cause cancer! So where is the law that outlaws farting! This is petty, I know, but that is where this whole thread is now leading! Down the Toilet! Kenny

wvit100 · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Land of the Oppressed

I like farts, as long as they are mine. Everyone else's stink, mine smell like roses.

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